How often do I need to change a Freshwater tank after a successful cycle

[tmhoskins]

Thanks everyone for the advice. We lost a Pleco last night. He was just swimming around and then it looked like he just short circuited or something and died on the spot. Haven't lost any other fish but my wife is having a hard time dealing with the losses as well as my older son. So we have decided to return all our fish and do a fish-less cycle so the possibility of losing more fish will be way lower.

Can anyone just literally tell me what to do once the tank is cycled. There is so much info out there it feels very overwhelming and it's honestly stressing me out. I would love to know how to do a water change effectively and not kill my fish. Like I know I need a chemical to remove chlorine from tap water. We bought a pH buffer and Bacteria in a bottle (however I may be switching from stability since it seems to be the worst one), but do we need these when we do a water change after the tank is cycled? Which brands of chemicals would you suggest? I also purchased an API master test kit to get more accurate results, but how often do I need to test the water when there are no fish?

 

[charliebankston]

Test every few days when cycling. Make sure your keeping an ammonia source in there to feed the bb as it grows. I can tell you how I do my tanks, I'm sure someone on here will decide I'm wrong. I have 19 tanks and been keeping fish since 1987, so I've made plenty of mistakes. I do at least a 33% monthly on most. Some I have heavy stocking i do 25% weekly. I use the siphon to remove as much detritus and filth from the substrate as I can during water change. Then I put the garden hose is, start filling it back up and put in chlorine treatment/remover and monthly add some bottle bacteria to each. Most of my tanks are big so adding water directly into the tank doesn't affect the temperature much, so I don't bother to match. Small tanks it might be better to get close. Monthly I change the mechanical filtration pads in my filters.

 

[charliebankston]

And don't mess with the ph. A steady ph is more vital than the " optimal " ph. Your fish will easily adapt to the ph. I'm sure they were raised and kept in treated tap water anyway

 

[charliebankston]

But don't stress about it, just read up on what your wanting and it'll be fine. Any fishkeeper that says they've never killed a fish thru error or mistake is either a d*** liar or just plain ignorant

 

[Aiken Drum]

I like the flow chart from aquarium co op to determine how much/how often to do a water change.

https://images.app.goo.gl/javbdGiEjDgWjm6B6

I fully agree with charlie about chemicals. If you dont need them dont use them. If you can get away with just your water conditioner when you do your water changes then great. With regards to what water conditioner to use, i think they all pretty much do the same thing. Seachem prime is by far the most popular (I read over 75% of the market). I use API Stresscoat + mainly because its readily available. Once your cycle is established you don't need any bottled bacteria. If you have plants you might want to use a fertiliser. Apart from that, i dont use chemicals. Ive tried lots in the past and they dont really contribute, so i stopped spending money i dont need.

From your question about how often to test water without fish, it seems you dont know how to do a fishless cycle. Do you need any advice on that?

I would also say, fish die. I agree with charlie, everyone makes mistakes and even if they didn't, especially smaller fish, you do well to keep them alive 2 or 3 years.

I would also recommend youtube as a resource. I personally learnt a lot from Big Als channel. The main host Thomas is a great guy and they did lots of video guides for beginners and projects. Unfortunately they sacked him and hes over on Bulk Reef Supplies channel now. I had a Skype chat with him once which was great fun, and they featured my tank on his review show once as well.

Some good video links from Big Als

https://youtu.be/kgEfWkp6UCk

https://youtu.be/83NNFbPQ5hY

https://youtu.be/SqUH3BFp4ow

 

[Caliban07]

Your fish are not dying because of the water changes. They’re dying because they have been exposed to high levels of ammonia.

Ammonia is toxic to underwater animals. It is created by the fish themselves as they release waste and is a byproduct of respiration.

If the volume of water is low and the amount of fish you have and the size of fish you have and how much you feed them is high then ammonia builds up fast. Especially in a new tank.

Depending on the above factors, even two 50% water changes week may not be able to prevent toxic ammonia levels from building up. Plecos are seriously messy fish and they generate a lot of waste just on their own.

How big is the tank? Testing for nitrate is pointless until around the 5-6 week mark of a fish in cycle. Only around this time does harmful toxic ammonia start to become less harmful nitrate.

Fishless cycle is a good call under these circumstances.

98% of new fish keepers will have fallen in to the same trap as you have when starting out so you are in good company here.

 

[tmhoskins]

After all this we ended up talking to the people at the aquarium store and were told to completely start over with our tank. Literally wash everything with tap water including the gravel and let dry for 24 hours, and then start over with no fish. I found out the hard way with the pleco and GOLDFISH we had that it was a bad move. We went to another aquarium store and told them we had 2 guppies and were looking for a couple more fish. When told them that it was a new tank he said the guppies wouldn't make it and not to buy more fish. They also suggested that if we wanted some fish just buy a few goldfish to throw in there while it cycles. Being newcomers that's what we did. We lost 3 goldfish in 3 days. That's when I got on here and started the water changes. The aquarium store told us not to do water changes at all. This killed the pleco and another goldfish got severe ammonia burn because we have a 10 gallon tank and goldfish need minimum 50 gallons. Not sure why the aquarium store told us to buy goldfish at this point.

Needless to say we are planning on starting the new tank with conditioned water, and adding bacteria in a bottle to speed up the cycle a bit. At the 10 day mark we are going to get our water tested to see if we can accommodate
1-3 fish. Planning on Guppies or tetras, but only after the water is tested so the ammonia will not get high again. I purchased the API master test kit so I can keep an eye on the ammonia. Then hopefully a few weeks down the road we can get so bottom feeders that are also meant for a small tank.

We basically got bad advice and it just spiraled, however we did manage to return all the fish from our ammonia ridden water and they are fine. We never knew goldfish were that toxic to other fish. The temperature variance for guppies and the goldfish was also an issue.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[tmhoskins]

After all this we ended up talking to the people at the aquarium store and were told to completely start over with our tank. Literally wash everything with tap water including the gravel and let dry for 24 hours, and then start over with no fish. I found out the hard way with the pleco and GOLDFISH we had that it was a bad move. We went to another aquarium store and told them we had 2 guppies and were looking for a couple more fish. When told them that it was a new tank he said the guppies wouldn't make it and not to buy more fish. They also suggested that if we wanted some fish just buy a few goldfish to throw in there while it cycles. Being newcomers that's what we did. We lost 3 goldfish in 3 days. That's when I got on here and started the water changes. The aquarium store told us not to do water changes at all. This killed the pleco and another goldfish got severe ammonia burn because we have a 10 gallon tank and goldfish need minimum 50 gallons. Not sure why the aquarium store told us to buy goldfish at this point.

Needless to say we are planning on starting the new tank with conditioned water, and adding bacteria in a bottle to speed up the cycle a bit. At the 10 day mark we are going to get our water tested to see if we can accommodate
1-3 fish. Planning on Guppies or tetras, but only after the water is tested so the ammonia will not get high again. I purchased the API master test kit so I can keep an eye on the ammonia. Then hopefully a few weeks down the road we can get so bottom feeders that are also meant for a small tank.

We basically got bad advice and it just spiraled, however we did manage to return all the fish from our ammonia ridden water and they are fine. We never knew goldfish were that toxic to other fish. The temperature variance for guppies and the goldfish was also an issue.

Thanks for all the help.

I also forgot to mention we are doing a 2 time a day feeding schedule without the fish as if we did actually have fish to aid in the biological material in the tank.

 

[charliebankston]

[emoji106][emoji106]

 

[Caliban07]

After all this we ended up talking to the people at the aquarium store and were told to completely start over with our tank. Literally wash everything with tap water including the gravel and let dry for 24 hours, and then start over with no fish. I found out the hard way with the pleco and GOLDFISH we had that it was a bad move. We went to another aquarium store and told them we had 2 guppies and were looking for a couple more fish. When told them that it was a new tank he said the guppies wouldn't make it and not to buy more fish. They also suggested that if we wanted some fish just buy a few goldfish to throw in there while it cycles. Being newcomers that's what we did. We lost 3 goldfish in 3 days. That's when I got on here and started the water changes. The aquarium store told us not to do water changes at all. This killed the pleco and another goldfish got severe ammonia burn because we have a 10 gallon tank and goldfish need minimum 50 gallons. Not sure why the aquarium store told us to buy goldfish at this point.



Needless to say we are planning on starting the new tank with conditioned water, and adding bacteria in a bottle to speed up the cycle a bit. At the 10 day mark we are going to get our water tested to see if we can accommodate

1-3 fish. Planning on Guppies or tetras, but only after the water is tested so the ammonia will not get high again. I purchased the API master test kit so I can keep an eye on the ammonia. Then hopefully a few weeks down the road we can get so bottom feeders that are also meant for a small tank.



We basically got bad advice and it just spiraled, however we did manage to return all the fish from our ammonia ridden water and they are fine. We never knew goldfish were that toxic to other fish. The temperature variance for guppies and the goldfish was also an issue.



Thanks for all the help.

Stores give bad advice either because they don’t understand themselves it to cash in on selling you solutions to problems that shouldn’t happen.

Yes goldfish and plecos are not fish for cycling.

If you think about it, if you buy small fish a couple at a time spread a week or two apart whilst performing frequent water changes a fish in cycle carries little risk.

Sounds like you got things back on track. Good luck.

 

[Caliban07]

I also forgot to mention we are doing a 2 time a day feeding schedule without the fish as if we did actually have fish to aid in the biological material in the tank.

Be careful of surface film (oily slick) on surface building up from the proteins from the food. This will prevent good oxygenation at the air/water surface.

You may also want to keep the lights of and change water as normal otherwise your next post on here will be about algae [emoji16]

 

[Ktownmatt]

Needless to say we are planning on starting the new tank with conditioned water, and adding bacteria in a bottle to speed up the cycle a bit. At the 10 day mark we are going to get our water tested to see if we can accommodate
1-3 fish. Planning on Guppies or tetras, but only after the water is tested so the ammonia will not get high again. I purchased the API master test kit so I can keep an eye on the ammonia. Then hopefully a few weeks down the road we can get so bottom feeders that are also meant for a small tank.

I'd be hesitant to cycle a tank with Guppies. They're pretty fragile, at least the ones my local LFS sells...
I've done two fish-in cycles, and bought a few Danios. They're pretty hardy.

 

[charliebankston]

I'd be hesitant to cycle a tank with Guppies. They're pretty fragile, at least the ones my local LFS sells...

I've done two fish-in cycles, and bought a few Danios. They're pretty hardy.

Yeah, I've done a couple of tanks with the same group of danios. They're not as pretty as guppys, but stronger for sure

 

[tmhoskins]

Update: We purchased 3 guppies 14 days after letting the tank sit. Tested ammonia a few days later and got about 1.5ppm. Did a water change and tested a few days later with it again being 1.5ppm. So we tested the tap water and found out its 1ppm ammonia. So that has definitely been an issue since the tank is not completely cycled. If it were the tap water would be fine. So we had to use spring water with a pH buffer to get the ammonia down as well as Prime. Fish are doing great but we got one with a parasite (it had white stringy feces and would not eat anything i.e. flake food, brine shrimp, or peas) so we took it back and got another since quarantining was way more expensive.

I realize that I am slowing down the cycle process by doing the water changes to keep the ammonia low, however, does anyone know why we are STILL NOT seeing nitrites or nitrates in the tank? It's like it just will not cycle at all. The filter has been running for so long its got growth of algae maybe where the water flows out. Just seems like the tank will never fully cycle. Good news is the fish are fine and I am keeping a close eye on the ammonia levels.

 

[tmhoskins]

Be careful of surface film (oily slick) on surface building up from the proteins from the food. This will prevent good oxygenation at the air/water surface.

You may also want to keep the lights of and change water as normal otherwise your next post on here will be about algae [emoji16]

Update: We purchased 3 guppies 14 days after letting the tank sit. Tested ammonia a few days later and got about 1.5ppm. Did a water change and tested a few days later with it again being 1.5ppm. So we tested the tap water and found out its 1ppm ammonia. So that has definitely been an issue since the tank is not completely cycled. If it were the tap water would be fine. So we had to use spring water with a pH buffer to get the ammonia down as well as Prime. Fish are doing great but we got one with a parasite (it had white stringy feces and would not eat anything i.e. flake food, brine shrimp, or peas) so we took it back and got another since quarantining was way more expensive.

I realize that I am slowing down the cycle process by doing the water changes to keep the ammonia low, however, does anyone know why we are STILL NOT seeing nitrites or nitrates in the tank? It's like it just will not cycle at all. The filter has been running for so long its got growth of algae maybe where the water flows out. Just seems like the tank will never fully cycle. Good news is the fish are fine and I am keeping a close eye on the ammonia levels.

 

[Caliban07]

Update: We purchased 3 guppies 14 days after letting the tank sit. Tested ammonia a few days later and got about 1.5ppm. Did a water change and tested a few days later with it again being 1.5ppm. So we tested the tap water and found out its 1ppm ammonia. So that has definitely been an issue since the tank is not completely cycled. If it were the tap water would be fine. So we had to use spring water with a pH buffer to get the ammonia down as well as Prime. Fish are doing great but we got one with a parasite (it had white stringy feces and would not eat anything i.e. flake food, brine shrimp, or peas) so we took it back and got another since quarantining was way more expensive.



I realize that I am slowing down the cycle process by doing the water changes to keep the ammonia low, however, does anyone know why we are STILL NOT seeing nitrites or nitrates in the tank? It's like it just will not cycle at all. The filter has been running for so long its got growth of algae maybe where the water flows out. Just seems like the tank will never fully cycle. Good news is the fish are fine and I am keeping a close eye on the ammonia levels.

I dunno. Personally I think people get waaay too hung up on tests and readings. It honestly doesn’t make any odds either way. The tank will cycle. Even if you just carry on doing what you’re doing it will cycle. If the fish are healthy then I wouldn’t be worried at all. It takes about 6 weeks to see nitrates.