is anything easy?

[azmodan]

Sorry for the double post but please make sure to read my post before this one.

So...okay...the substrate is sore of a big deal to me. I'm going to start this tank soon, and I definitely don't want to decide to change from sand to substrate down the road from now. I have to figure this out. Maybe I should just start with substrate as I have to take a month to cycle this tank anyway. What if I get really into this? I test ph and ammonia, what other tests will I need to run before adding fish?

I was looking at Excell. Do you have to dose everyday? I'm pretty sure that's what I read. Time will tell. If I have any luck maybe C02 tank in future. I love this hobby.

So I ordered that Finnex 24/7. I will use liquid C02 for now. Any advice on liquid fertilizers? I saw something you put down below your gravel (clay like?) but can't remember the name. Any input on that?

Oh yeah, more stupid questions...no more bubble wall right? And what type of hood do you guys use? I'm NOT handy, so no "do it yourself screens." Do you prefer plexi glass lids or screens, and do you have any recommendations?

Thank you so much for any and all help

You should have a API master test kit and should be testing ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate to make sure you tank is cycled.

For liquid fertilizers a bottle of Seachem Flourish Comprehensive and API Leaf Zone will give you a basic foundation for the micro/macro ferts you need. We can upgrade those later depending where your tank heads. A good alternative to Excel is Metricide 14. It's a generic form of Excel that's twice as strong and wayyy cheaper. You can buy a gallon bottle on Amazon or ebay for $20-$30 usually. You'll need root tabs under any heavy root feeder (think crypts, swords, etc). You can buy these commercially or make them yourself. Do a forum or google search for "diy root tab" or check out Peabody's Paradise and buy some of his RU tabs. Good stuff.

The bubble wall is up to you. If you ran co2 injection I'd recommend to take it out but right now it won't matter much either way.

I keep all of my tanks topless. It just looks cleaner to me but I do have to periodically top off water due to evaporation. A glass versa hood is a nice hood if you need.

 

[IllusionX]

I use API leaf zone and Azoo Carbon in my 65G.

As mentioned, ADA is very expensive. Even Fluval stratum is not given. That's why, like I said, I did half half.. The bottom is filled with fluorite sand and then stratum on top to reach about 3inches of substrate for the plants.

Most of my plant's root are planted into the fluorite, or they will grow and anchor deep down.

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[schpanky]

Could you tell me more about Metricide? I will check into it and think I remember seeing something about it on youtube.

Okay here's what I ordered so far...
Finnex 24/7 light 48"
ADA Amazonia Aqua Soil (4 bags)

Looking into fertilizers...as mentioned..Seachem Flourish Comprehensive and API leaf zone (looks like the leaf zone has the potassium of the two). I already have 3 of the API tests, so I'll need the nitrate & nitrite (eventually KH/GH).

I noticed that when I ordered the soil there was a powder for sale too. Do you guys know anything about that? Is that something I'd put below the soil? I want to make every attempt to do this right, even if I'm going low/medium light.

Seriously I can't thank you guys enough. A planted tank is a dream I've had for years. Single tear.

 

[Heck09]

Could you tell me more about Metricide? I will check into it and think I remember seeing something about it on youtube.



Okay here's what I ordered so far...

Finnex 24/7 light 48"

ADA Amazonia Aqua Soil (4 bags)



Looking into fertilizers...as mentioned..Seachem Flourish Comprehensive and API leaf zone (looks like the leaf zone has the potassium of the two). I already have 3 of the API tests, so I'll need the nitrate & nitrite (eventually KH/GH).



I noticed that when I ordered the soil there was a powder for sale too. Do you guys know anything about that? Is that something I'd put below the soil? I want to make every attempt to do this right, even if I'm going low/medium light.



Seriously I can't thank you guys enough. A planted tank is a dream I've had for years. Single tear.

From the videos that the green machine has made the Ada powder goes in before the substrate


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[azmodan]

Could you tell me more about Metricide? I will check into it and think I remember seeing something about it on youtube.

Okay here's what I ordered so far...
Finnex 24/7 light 48"
ADA Amazonia Aqua Soil (4 bags)

Looking into fertilizers...as mentioned..Seachem Flourish Comprehensive and API leaf zone (looks like the leaf zone has the potassium of the two). I already have 3 of the API tests, so I'll need the nitrate & nitrite (eventually KH/GH).

I noticed that when I ordered the soil there was a powder for sale too. Do you guys know anything about that? Is that something I'd put below the soil? I want to make every attempt to do this right, even if I'm going low/medium light.

Seriously I can't thank you guys enough. A planted tank is a dream I've had for years. Single tear.

The powder type people usually use on top of Amazonia or as an accent substrate as it's much easier to plant in. Ultimately it'll work itself to the bottom though as the powder sifts to the bottom. Overall it is an inferior alternative to Amazonia as it has less nutrients and a lower CEC.

Metricide is a chemical commonly used as a disinfectant by medical facilities. The primary ingredient is glutaraldehyde, which is also the main ingredient (although diluted) in Seachem Flourish Excel. It is used as a liquid carbon supplement for plants (a sort of less effective but still very useful alternative/supplement to pressurized co2) and as an algaecide. Because it is a chemical you'll still want to take precautions when handling it (i.e. keep away from face/children, wash hands if you spill it on yourself, etc). Metricide 14 comes with an activator solution in a separate bottle, this is NOT to be used and should immediately be thrown away.

 

[azmodan]

From the videos that the green machine has made the Ada powder goes in before the substrate


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Those are ADA's supplements, like the Bacter and stuff.

 

[Heck09]

Those are ADA's supplements, like the Bacter and stuff.

Oh my bad I misunderstood what he meant


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[schpanky]

Hi again. I've been watching some youtube video. Reading up on silent cycles. I was wondering...some people put down substrate and plants then spray it down with water, then cover tank with cling-wrap and use light. They water it and let it root for a week or two before filling with water. Then it looks like other people put down substrate, a bit of water, then plants, then fill tank right away and use no light for a few days. Then others put down substrate, no plants and fill it with water and run the filter, then I can't tell what happens.

What is your favorite method? Is the Saran-Wrap method for high light plants? I just don't know. Thanks.

Oh, also do you guys ever break up moss and put it on rocks/wood? How's that work?

 

[schpanky]

So I found a really detailed youtube page (of course they're trying to sell you everything). Any input? Before the soil, the guy puts down powders in this order...

PENAC P
PENAC W
TOURMALINE BC
power sand (a pre substrate)
BACTER 100 (over power sand)
CLEAR SUPER
then he put down ada soil and then a power sand over that.

This is $167 (not including soil). Do you guys recommend any of these products, or would they replace any other products? Or do you have luck with something else?

 

[ImACoolguy]

Hi again. I've been watching some youtube video. Reading up on silent cycles. I was wondering...some people put down substrate and plants then spray it down with water, then cover tank with cling-wrap and use light. They water it and let it root for a week or two before filling with water. Then it looks like other people put down substrate, a bit of water, then plants, then fill tank right away and use no light for a few days. Then others put down substrate, no plants and fill it with water and run the filter, then I can't tell what happens.



What is your favorite method? Is the Saran-Wrap method for high light plants? I just don't know. Thanks.



Oh, also do you guys ever break up moss and put it on rocks/wood? How's that work?

Can't say I've ever heard of using seran wrap...

For moss like Java moss, it's hard to kill. Just pull off what you want and tie it down. In a nutrient rich system this stuff grows like weeds.


Caleb

 

[Fresh2o]

In a new tank I would add the substrate, add hardscape, partially fill with water, add plants, fill the tank, run lights, filter, heater and start dosing ferts.
The Saran Wrap is used to trap moisture in the tank while using the DSM or Dry Start Method. The idea is to allow plants access to increased CO2 (well, atmospheric as opposed to submerged) to help get a jump start in establishing primarily high light, demanding, carpet plants (though not limited to carpet plants). I have yet to try that method.
Moss is versatile; tie or glue a section of it to rocks or DW and it will take hold after some time.


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[azmodan]

So I found a really detailed youtube page (of course they're trying to sell you everything). Any input? Before the soil, the guy puts down powders in this order...

PENAC P
PENAC W
TOURMALINE BC
power sand (a pre substrate)
BACTER 100 (over power sand)
CLEAR SUPER
then he put down ada soil and then a power sand over that.

This is $167 (not including soil). Do you guys recommend any of these products, or would they replace any other products? Or do you have luck with something else?

You don't need these products. If you really wanted to supplement your aquasoil you could add a little Osmocote+ to the bottom of the tank but even that isn't necessary. Also note that your aquasoil will leach a ton of ammonia in the beginning so you'll likely want to do daily water changes for the first week or so.

As Fresh already mentioned the saran wrap thing is for the Dry Start Method (DSM). It's a really cool way of jump starting an aquarium but personally I'd recommend just starting off the old fashioned way (submerged in water) and later on you can try the DSM in a different tank as it does present different challenges that may be easier to tackle once you have the experience of a planted tank already. Doing your first tank submerged from the start will also give the aquasoil time to leach its ammonia and your tank to complete the nitrogen cycle.

 

[schpanky]

Thanks for telling me about the DSM. I wouldn't mind doing that in the future, but I don't think I'm going to start with any carpeting type plants. Instead of all those expensive powders I could use Osmocote+? I keep hearing Bacter 100 mentioned in the vids.
Here's how it looks so far

-LIGHT
Finnex 24/7

-BOTTOM OF TANK
Osmocote +
Substrate (amazonia aqua soil)

-PLANTS (as taken from the article about the Silent Cycle)
Ceratopteris Thalictroide (Water Sprite)
Hygorphila Polysperma (Ludwiga?)
Bacopa Australis (insert common name here- ha ha)
Egeria Densa (Anacharis)

-FERTILIZERS
Seachem Flourish Comprehensive
API Leaf Zone

-C02
Metricide daily

-TESTS
Amonia
PH
Nitrate and Nitrite
(do I need hardness tests yet, I don't have hard water but don't know the exacts)


First Week-50% water change daily
Second Week-50% water change every other day
(any advice on week three-week four?)

 

[ImACoolguy]

Won't be long you will have more water sprite than you know what to do with stuff grows worse than weeds under ample conditions. I had a huge bowl of it leftover in a few weeks.


Caleb

 

[fishenthusiast]

If you get a moss, Flourish Plant Glue is good to use, and easier than using fishing line or thread. For me, taking fishing line off moss and risking pulling off some of the moss was annoying and maddening at times.


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[trennamw]

If you get a moss, Flourish Plant Glue is good to use, and easier than using fishing line or thread. For me, taking fishing line off moss and risking pulling off some of the moss was annoying and maddening at times.


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What a great thread this has become!

FYI flourish plant glue is just super glue with a higher price! They are both cyanoacrylate.


Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.

 

[schpanky]

Hi again. I was looking to purchase Osmocote Plus and didn't realize it was not specifically for tanks. Oh! I guess IT'S the stuff you make root tab ferts out of? I still haven't done my homework on that yet. So how much would I sprinkle on the bottom of my tank (it's a 55 gallon) prior to the substrate? I still haven't started my tank yet, but the light and the substrate are on the way. Today I will order some ferts and liquid C02.

I could just look up the following but, API Leaf Zone and Seachem Flourish Comprehensive...is one of them Micro and one of them Macro nutrients? After tank is running for about four weeks you start fertilizing right? Do you alternate these two? Also, (I know, enough with the questions right?) I have the most ridiculous sticker type thermometer on my tank. What is a good device to get an accurate reading of the tanks temp? I've always just lucked out with this.

BTW, the glue is a great idea.

 

[Mebbid]

Hi again. I was looking to purchase Osmocote Plus and didn't realize it was not specifically for tanks. Oh! I guess IT'S the stuff you make root tab ferts out of? I still haven't done my homework on that yet. So how much would I sprinkle on the bottom of my tank (it's a 55 gallon) prior to the substrate? I still haven't started my tank yet, but the light and the substrate are on the way. Today I will order some ferts and liquid C02.

I could just look up the following but, API Leaf Zone and Seachem Flourish Comprehensive...is one of them Micro and one of them Macro nutrients? After tank is running for about four weeks you start fertilizing right? Do you alternate these two? Also, (I know, enough with the questions right?) I have the most ridiculous sticker type thermometer on my tank. What is a good device to get an accurate reading of the tanks temp? I've always just lucked out with this.

BTW, the glue is a great idea.

For diy root tabs do a search for "mebbid's diy root tabs" i made a fairly detailed thread about the benefits of home made root tabs over store bought. I would start with a couple tablespoons of osmocote under the substrate and call it good at that.

For fertilizers look into pps pro or ei dosed dry ferts. You can buy the packs on green leaf aquariums. The premixed ferts like flourish and leaf zone are junk. Ill post some links when i get to a pc. Dont have my bookmarks on my phone

 

[schpanky]

Oh no, I already ordered the two ferts I mentioned. Also checked out your tanks (Mebbid) HOLY COW. I really appreciate your advice. So, when I run out of my ferts, I'm definitely going to go with your recommendations.

Checking on your post led me to an old thread about Metricide. I attempted to post, but the thread was 647 days old, so I was not able.

So I cut it and am going to post it here.

I'm a total newb, so apologies for stupid questions. I read that Metricide is diluted with RO or distilled water 1:1. What happens if I mix it with tank water or tap water? Also If I get an opaque bottle to store it in, would I be able to store it already mixed? Probably not right?

Thanks guys.

 

[Mebbid]

Oh no, I already ordered the two ferts I mentioned. Also checked out your tanks (Mebbid) HOLY COW. I really appreciate your advice. So, when I run out of my ferts, I'm definitely going to go with your recommendations.

Checking on your post led me to an old thread about Metricide. I attempted to post, but the thread was 647 days old, so I was not able.

So I cut it and am going to post it here.

I'm a total newb, so apologies for stupid questions. I read that Metricide is diluted with RO or distilled water 1:1. What happens if I mix it with tank water or tap water? Also If I get an opaque bottle to store it in, would I be able to store it already mixed? Probably not right?

Thanks guys.

You can mix it, but theres really no reason to as long as you remember to dose the correct amount. Some people have been using excel forever and occasionally dosed the excel dosage rather than the metricide dosage. Its rarely an ussue, but it can still be problematic.

As to what you want to mix it with, presumably mixing it with tap or tank water will cause it to break down. However, distilled water or ro/di (not just plain ro) is relatively free of anything that could cause it to break down. it generally breaks down within 10 hours of being added to the tank.