It seems I have messed up completely.

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Marconis

Aquarium Advice Addict
Joined
Dec 25, 2006
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Location
Queens, NY
Well, I am pretty sure I have failed. I think I bought the wrong kind of ammonia. God I really feel like an idiot. I went to Stop & Shop yesterday and bought something called Pure Power Clear Ammonia. I didn't read anything on the container about any detergents, so I bought it. I added it to my tank. This morning, the surface of my tank along the glass looked kind of soapy in a way, but I figured it was just the high temperatures. Later in the day, I think again. I start to panic. I start doing some research, and what I find is..."Pure ammonia does not foam or bubble." I shake mine......it foams/bubbles. I am very angry. I read the ingredients, Ammonium Hydroxide Solution, Surfactant, Clarifying agent. I messed up big time, didn't I?
 
UGH, I'm sorry - thats the real BIG pain about fishless cycling with ammonia and the reason I decided to go the "rotting shrimp" route - I was afraid of the ammonia. I didn't know then, that ACE Hardware carries a janitorial pure ammonia with no additives.

Don't fret - many have been in your shoes. You're going to have to empty the tank and rinse everything a TON ... and then rinse again. Others who have been in your shoes will come along with more help.

I'm sorry this happened to you - its the pits.
 
I feared someone would say "EMPTY THE TANK". Oh man, why me lol. What do I do witht eh filter, I have a bio wheel and I know you arent really supposed to clean the wheel.
 
I was pointed to the ace hardware stuff from SparKy697 on here. The closest Ace around me is more than 20 minutes away, so I ended up checking at my local Lowe's, Home Depot, and True Value before making the drive to Ace to get that stuff. None of the other places had any ammonia stuff that didn't contain the surfactants or dyes and fragrance.

I don't know, Marconis, what to tell you to do now since I'm a newb myself, but from my reading here you have to use stuff that doesn't contain any of those things.

Here's the Ace Hardware stuff if you have one available. You can buy a single bottle for less than 3 bucks at the store if you decide to try again. I just dosed my tank yesterday, so I can't speak from experience on how it goes, but we'll see...
http://www.acehardware.com/product/...mmonia&parentPage=search&searchId=19025312591
Also, droppers from infant tylenol are great for measuring in those small amounts you'll need from it. Just don't give that dropper back to the kids!

Is it a big tank? i.e. something that's going to be hard to clean?
 
Thanks, theres a few Ace Hardware's around me, so I guess Im in luck. Im just angry because I didn't read anything about Surfactant until afterwards. Stupid me. I guess I have no choice but to empty out the tank and start all over.



Im gonna rinse everything off like 15 times, tank gravel and all...but waht do I do about the filter? Isnt that stupid stuff that caused all this gonna be in it?
 
I'd replace the cartridge and the bio wheel if it were me. Bio-wheels are pretty cheap. You may be able to get by with just rinsing it several times but I wouldn't be one to chance it.
 
I would replace the biowheel, and the cartridge...
I would rinse everything out, toss the old biowheel, but don't put the new one in..
Fill it with water, and turn on the filters and stuff. Also, I would pack a little more carbon into the filter to hopefully absorb any left over soap or stuff.
 
OK thanks



I just rinsed one bucket of gravel 4 times. Do you think it's safe yet to fill the tank? It has a funky smell too, not sure if its from ammonia or just because the gravel smells like that.
 
Soap is really dangerous - I'd get a hose deep into the gravel and let it wash through it for a good long time. I'm not sure what the funky smell is - does it smell like the ammonia you used ?
 
No, it just smells...weird. My water smelled like it before as well, but I cant remember if it did smell like that before the ammonia..



Im starting to wonder if I should just buy new plants and gravel. Just to be safe. Easiet thing in the world, a simple drop of ammonia (the stupid wrong kind) ruined my entire tank. Oy I wanna punch something.
 
I went through this experience in October. It had been going for 10-12 days though. This was my experience... maybe you can pickup something useful from it. I would definitely purchase new gravel and bio filters. (The bio wheels are a couple bucks.) I also got a new bubbler since it had been in there so long. If you really want to be sure (as I did), that what you are reusing will be safe, I recommend you do what I did. Introduce one thing at a time into the tank, and observe carefully. If all is well, take that item out, introduce the next item, leave it there, and observe. How long you leave something is up to you, and based on how long you had the faulty ammonia in the tank... I usually left mine over night.

I had to do this, because the second time I reassembled my tank (with the new gravel of course!) I had a burst of soapy foam... something got missed. With so many different items in the tank, I wasn't sure which was the problem. The gravel? The heater? The driftwood? The plants? Before I did a third attempt, EVERYTHING was verified to be clean. Thankfully that time I had no problems.

As follows:

I got burned this month about this. I thought I’d done everything right. "Clear Ammonia." No perfumes. Sounded good.

While no fish have been harmed - I can’t begin to go into my horror story, except that it brought on a mental panic breakdown and resulted in missed work, much additional expense, and many many hours of frightful labor. My fingers are still raw and cut up from the efforts. My heart is racing even as I say this. Round two has so far gone much better, I pray, I hope, I won’t know 100% until the tank is cycled, and the (hopefully fortunate) guppies make an appearance. But I do feel very confident that I have finally conquered it. (Every single item had to be tested over a lengthy period of time. Aquarium Salt and 140 degree water were my constant companions. Many things had to just be purchased brand new, filters/bio wheel, substrate. Based on at least 30 hours of labor, I feel I have some experience with the Evil in question.) Therefore, having scrutinized much of it, I feel I can say…

The evil is not necessarily traceless, as I’ve found so far.

It may be possible to take a few days and test the ammonia source, in a bucket far far away from the tank.
What it did to me was:

a) foam slightly,
b) cloud the water,
c) disappear and water clarifies,
d) turn into a slimy coat on things like air tubes you can feel,
e) eventually you will see it: It collects into white slime that coats around suction cups, etc.

You will probably right away see a residue floating on the top of the water, like the iridescence you see when gasoline floats on water, or in little flat specs floating. And you can almost immediately feel it in the water – the water will feel velvety and soft and slippery. (It seems to me water has a certain kind of friction to it when it’s clean. When soapy products are in there, rubbing your fingers together or along the side of a bucket won’t squeak or have any friction.)

------

I do whatever I can now to get the word SURFACTANTS out - and don't trust "quality control agents" either! Don't assume like I did, that because they don't spell something bad out, it must be ok. Most sites mention perfumes, dyes and soap, but I had no idea that surfactants are one of those!

Best wishes!
 
WOW.

I surely learned something here. I knew that surfactants were to be avoided but I had not heard what the results of introducing it into the tank was.

It sounds like a major issue to get things right again.

I don't know if there are any restrictions, but I'd be more than happy to mail you a bottle of ammonia if you have trouble finding it.
 
You have no idea how happy I am for your post. I am terribly sorry you ahd to go through that, because I can say a little that I know how it feels. Luckily, mine was only going for a day. My fake plants, two fake rocks and heater all felt very slimy when I took them out. So, I am throwing out the gravel and buying new tommorow, as well as new plants...luckily, I have two plants left over form when i bought my first bunch, so I wont have to buy as many. I am going to do what you said. The only thing I am worried about is the filter and the intake tube. Im worried that there is that soap in there. I rinsed the gravel and plants for a really long time over and over again, but I am not even going to risk it. Id rather spend 50 dollars on plants and gravel than having to take everything out of my tank again.

Thank you for the informational reply. I really appreciate it.
 
Neon Julie, what your saying is, fill the tank with water, then introduce one thing at a time? Well that's exactly what your saying, but I guess Ill do it like this:

1)My BIGGEST concern are my two big fake rocks. I am nervous that no matter how long I rinse it, that soap stuff will still be there somewhere. So, Im going to fill the tank with water and water only, no gravel..(I am going to put the new stuff in last). Then I am going to put the rocks in over night, plus a few extra hours. Should I have the filter on when I am doing this? Or should I just put the heater to the temperature it was at when I had put the ammonia in?

2)If that goes well and I dont see any of that crappy ammonia, Ill take them out, then my last thing to test would be the filter itself. I rinsed down the inside glass of the tank with a hose and a spray bottle at least 4 times on each side of it. I'll do it another two, just to be safe.

3) I pray my water doesn't foam :)
 
If you can, start by getting the tank stripped down and cleaned out first. (Mine's a small tank though, so I could haul it to the bathtub.) Once you know it's good, you can place the objects (like your rocks) in it and observe.

I soaked my cave rock and my plants, and even my driftwood (most people thought that would have been something to toss, but it made it), for days, while I went through the process.

After the tank itself is good, the tank filtration and plastic pieces (frame, etc), would be next. I could actually get to mine with my hands, tubing and all, and ran very hot water with the aquarium salt through it. It comes clean pretty fast, being plastic.

Soaking and rinsing those items in the very hot salty water did pretty much work for me and my plants/cave rocks, so I bet yours which had less exposure will be ok. You may just have to let it soak for a day or two, and rinse/scrub.

I had a checklist of things, so I was sure not to miss anything:

1. Tank
2. Tank filtration/equipment/plastic housings, etc.
3. Thermometer (really scrub on the soft plastic cups, etc.)
4. Ammonia Alert (these both were coated in the slime, but came noticeable clean fast.)
5. Heater - this one was a challenge, since it has little internal spaces. But I submerged it for some time, and rinsed for some time, etc. I didn't end up having any issues from it. Be pretty thorough... Don't forget to scrub substantially DOWN THE WIRING of the Heater and the Filtration, enough to wear it was under water. Along with any airline tubing you had.
6. Clay Pot
7. Rainbow Rock Cave
8. Plants (so keep in mind, everything not being tested has been soaking for some days now)
9. The last thing was the 2nd gravel attempt... which were white rocks (a nightmare even when they aren't contaminated to keep from being cloudy!) and I worked on every night for 2 weeks.

ALSO - go nuts about any screws, etc. There's a screw on the bottom of the granite base attached to my driftwood... I believe in the end that was the cause of the 2nd failed attempt, and the resudsing of the tank. Just a slight amount of the white goo had attached to the side of the screw, and when the water hit it, it just spread.

Once they were in, and it ran clear, I knew I was finally home free. The whole process took me about a week to undo it, and about an additional $65. I fishless cycled using fish food (I was scared of ammonia after all this!!!) for about a week, before deciding to redo the aquascaping yet AGAIN *lol* and change out for black rocks. (I did leave some of the white in, to keep the bacteria that had already started developing.) So really, all the work I spent trying to "save" the white rocks was a waste in the end... but it was a learning process. :)

Originally I intended to put guppies in the tank first, as sort of canaries to truly make sure everything would be ok for the fragile guys I intended to put in there (gouramis/neons/otos.) But as my new fishless cycle (which was back to the RIGHT kind of ammonia - fish food is too messy!!) went on, and I never saw any indications of soap etc., I felt a little more confident in my setup.

I believe in the end, my 30-40 hours of labor and thoroughness worked... because a week ago I put in my new fish, a dwarf gourami (which I'm hoping didn't bring something), 6 neons, and 3 otos. Other than the pre-injured neon, everyone has grown - everyone has nice round bellies. Everyone has beautiful color, and they eat very well. Everyone seems happy. That seems good enough to me, to indicate that I saved the setup after all.

I know you felt like a failure... I really know. The second attempt that failed was so distressing to me, that I got sick over it the next day and called in sick to work - I just couldn't even sleep over it. Unfortunately, some times we don't learn the information we need from the Internet, (no one had ever mentioned Surfactants on my site, just perfumes.) You THINK you're doing everything right... and you contaminate everything you've bought. That's why I went at it with one item at a time, so I could feel at least a little bit of hope.

The forum I had been visiting told me THEY would NEVER put fish in something that had been previously contaminated. I've never felt like I could go back there, because unfortunately I didn't have another $300 with which to buy EVERYTHING all over again, just in case. But I feel my trial method, and replacing key items (like gravel and bio wheel/filter media) in the end worked. (Unfortunately, the constantly washing and replacing the gravel did do a number on the lower inches of my acrylic tank, and I did get some scratches moving it into the bathtub. Probably some day I'll replace the tank in the future.)

In the back of my mind, I worry right now... I'm hoping that I didn't miss anything, that would mean that maybe they wouldn't DIE... but would maybe be prone to illness/stress, etc. I'll probably never know for 100% if it is perfect, but then again, many people's fish do come down with illnesses, regardless of issues like mine.

Right now, I guess I should feel happy that everyone is growing, and looks beautiful, and seems very happy, with no signs of stress. I guess I've done what I can.


I used to think that I failed... but I try not to think that way anymore, because in the end, at least thus far, NO fish had died at any point. They simply weren't there to experience the problems. (And my hands were really soft by the end of the week. *lol*) I think EVERYBODY makes mistakes - but a lot of times they end up inadvertantly hurting their livestock. At least we have that advantage.

The fact that yours was in there for such a short amount of time before you caught it, I think you'll be just fine. If I did it, after almost 2 weeks, you'll probably do real well.

If I didn't answer your questions directly, give me another holler.
 
I guess it's up to you if you want to save the filter for last - it would be something you'd have to rescrub if a later item DID repeat the contamination.

Oh, now I remember why I had the filter going... you need agitation in the water to prove there's nothing to bubble and foam. For instance, my (faulty) driftwood had been soaking in a bucket for days, with no signs of soap, until splashing water hit it. (But that was also at the point where the surfactants had solidified into goo and stuck to things.) But I needed the moving water to be sure. It's possible yours wasn't in long enough to get to that point where you could see it. You might try splashing the objects when you put them in there, just to ensure it doesn't foam and bubble.


One other thing... I panicked when I put my heater in the first time, and saw waves of something rising from off of it. But hubby and I confirmed that that must have been actual heated WATER and/or any salt that had remained, because it never was soapy or slippery. So don't worry if you see that, but don't see any other indications.

Best wishes.
 
THANK YOU SO MUCH. You are a lifesaver, you have no idea. I am not going to purchase the gravel until the end, until I am done testing everything. Thank you so much for helping me out like this I REALLY APPRECIATE IT!


I'll probably post my progress on here, but I dont think anyone will want to read it :). Ill probably only post if something goes wrong (I hope nothing will.)
 
...I would be interested in hearing about it. :) Well I'm truly glad my problems might have helped someone else.
 
Oh, one more thing that I just thought of. Since you said the filter needs to be running to create water agitation, won't the bio-wheel just become contaminated if that soap comes up while Im testing something?
 
Another thing too, if you don't want to replace the cartrige and biowheel, you could try boiling them for several minutes, then place them in cool water and rinse a couple times. That should get rid of the soap, if there was any in there. Also, remember that you really aren't adding a lot of soap to the tank as well, as you are only dosing ammonia to 3-5ppm. Depending on tank size, it's probably not any more than a capful, more than likely less unless it's a larger tank.
 
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