My First Tank and I Think Something Is Wrong

[J-Aqua]

Hi guys! I am very very new to the fish tank scene and excuse any kind of incorrect terminology I might use. Haha.

Well I have a 29 Gallon tank with One Bloodmouth Parot, Convict, and Jack Dempsey (sp). Also I have one sucker fish. Before I introduced the fish to the tank I filled the tank up and followed the directions that came with the pre built tank (comes with filter, ect. ect. everything). I put in the stuff that kills or deplete's the chlorine in the water. I then followed up with I think its called "stress Zyme" bacteria aid. After about a day of the tank sitting I went and got the fish (I am now finding out that I should have waited longer.)

I got only the sucker fish, Jack Dempsey, and the Parot fish all cichlids except the sucker fish I set the baggy in the water so they can get adjusted to the water in the tank for about 20mins. I then let them out and they where perfectly fine. Then about 3 days later my brother in law has this real pretty convict that has some really nice solid colors. He said that he would give the convict to me. I said sure why not nice fish and its about the same size as all the rest of the fish. I put him in the tank and he adjusted well. He kinda is the bully of the tank however, but its ok.

Well maybe about a day or two after that (close to a week of having the tank up and running) the tank starts to kinda getting hazy. The fish kinda seemed sluggish after that. I then smelt a wiff of strong ammonia smell (kind of like Cat pee). I thought that might be ok the tank is just going through its "cycle." The next day the tank smelt awful. Real strong sent of ammonia. The fish seemed really sluggish and lazy. The parot fish especially. He just kind floats next to the heater floating almost sideways. The Jack just hangs out on the bottom of the tank with the real plants. The convict sits in HIS castle and is more of the normal fish and swims around. I am feeding them twice a day in the morning and at night.

Yesterday I found out the my brother in laws fish (guy who gave me the convict) have ick, and are dieing. I looked at my fish and I see no white spots on them. I went to petsmart to get the water tested and they said that the ammonia level was 1.5 or something. The guy said it was normal?

At this point I have NO clue what I should do. The tank just seems really really dirty. Sorry for the long story

J

 

[rich311k]

Welcome to AA!!!

You need to do a major water change at least 50%, 75% would be better. Get yourself a test kit, a liquid one, and check your ammonia and nitrite levels everyday. You will need to test and change water and keep those levels under .5 ppm.

Lastely, your fish will all grow way to big for that tank, execpt for the convict. Good luck.

 

[J-Aqua]

Welcome to AA!!!

You need to do a major water change at least 50%, 75% would be better. Get yourself a test kit, a liquid one, and check your ammonia and nitrite levels everyday. You will need to test and change water and keep those levels under .5 ppm.

Lastely, your fish will all grow way to big for that tank, execpt for the convict. Good luck.

Ok thanks. How will I know when to stop chaning out the water? And should I clean off the items that are in the tank after I change some of the water? Also when I add the new water should I take out the fish for a while?

Yes I know that the fish will out grow the tank. The pet store said they will take them back and give you a new fish. Don't know if that was true or not. I absolutley love the bloodmouth parrot. It looks like he has a tie-dye orange and black skin. Pretty sick. You think I could have two of those and a sucker fish for that tank?

Thanks for the welcome and advice!

J

 

[rich311k]

Do not clean off the items in the tank until you are cycled. That is where the bacteria colonies will grow. You will need to keep up water changes until the ammonia and nitrite levels both stay at zero. You can then just do weekly water changes. No need to remove the fish, they wont mind at all, mine seem to enjoy water change day, I change 50%+ every week.

Not sure on how big parrots get someone else will be along to help you out. The sucker fish if it is a common pleco will get well over 18" long.

 

[onah]

yeah i ran in to this prob, but my first tank was much smaller(5g). the PWCs will last as long as it takes to get the levels where u need them. i know nothing of the fish u have so i cant really comment on that, but i agree with rich, the changes will help. also did they use a strip or a liquid test? the stripes suck! they said mine was fine then i tested with the liquid and my amonia was atleast twice what i had been told. well good luck! and welcome to AA!(i love reading that,lol)

 

[J-Aqua]

They tested the water with strips. So yea that might explain something. It was the local Petsmart, but they seem knowledgable (Hope their not full of ....)

I'll change out some of that water when I get home from work. The sucker fish is about 3 inches long and I am not sure if its a "pleco" as you stated. Its a light brown with some kind of spotting on it! 18inches is freakin huge! I'll just have to wait and see!

Thanks again guys I am surely glad I stumbled onto this sight!

J

 

[SCFatz]

Sounds like a common pleco to me.and yeah,they get huge.

Be sure to declorinate and temp match the new water.

But as mentioned,you either need a bigger tank or smaller fish.

I'll second the notion that you need a test kit at home so you can test daily.The american phamicuticals fresh water master kit is a good one.

 

[malkore]

PetsMart in general does NOT know what they're doing. nothing 'healthy' about 1.5ppm of ammonia. it IS normal for a new tank, and is the exact reason most people experience death after death in a new tank.

You need your OWN test kit, preferably the Aquarium Pharmaceutical's master test kit.

you do not need to clean the ornaments or remove fish during a water change, just make sure the new water matches the temperature of the water in teh tank, and add enough dechlorinator to treat the new water you add.

expect daily 50% water changes for the next 2 weeks, and likely 3x a week 50% water changes for 2 weeks after that.

All your current fish may die. 1.5ppm of ammonia is toxic enough to burn fish gills. the one laying on his side is practically gone as it is.

if they do all die, don't buy more fish. read the article here on fishless cycling and cycle the tank that way, then add fish when its safe to do so.

 

[J-Aqua]

PetsMart in general does NOT know what they're doing. nothing 'healthy' about 1.5ppm of ammonia. it IS normal for a new tank, and is the exact reason most people experience death after death in a new tank.

You need your OWN test kit, preferably the Aquarium Pharmaceutical's master test kit.

you do not need to clean the ornaments or remove fish during a water change, just make sure the new water matches the temperature of the water in teh tank, and add enough dechlorinator to treat the new water you add.

expect daily 50% water changes for the next 2 weeks, and likely 3x a week 50% water changes for 2 weeks after that.

All your current fish may die. 1.5ppm of ammonia is toxic enough to burn fish gills. the one laying on his side is practically gone as it is.

if they do all die, don't buy more fish. read the article here on fishless cycling and cycle the tank that way, then add fish when its safe to do so.

God dammit! I hope my Blood Parrot fish does not die. He has some real beautiful colors! When changing 50% of the water how much dechlorinator should I add? I don't have one huge bucket to fill the tank. Haha, it took me 30 mins to fill it up completely with a blender cup. Haha.

I know it says add 1tbsp of dechlorinator per 10 gallons. So I would add 1 and a half table spoon of that stuff?

I also have some other "Stress Zyme" bottle but I am not sure what its called. I will get back to you guys about that.

One more question. If the parrot is floating almost on his side and you think he might die, anyway I can stop that from happening. Medication of some sort? He is the most beautiful parrot fish I've seen yet. Thxs

J

 

[jsoong]

Agreed with all of the above Re: emergency large water changes & your own test kit.

I would suggest a short cut to try to shorten the cycle & maybe save the fish. Go to the guy that gave you the convict & get some filter material (don't take more than 1/2 or HE will get into trouble) and put that in your tank (preferable in your filter). This should seed your filter & kick start the cycle & maybe get the NH3 under control in a couple days. If his filter pad is not divisible, get him to squeeze out the gunk in the filter into a bit of tank water & pour that into your filter for the bacteria transfer.

Yes, I know that the guy's tank has ich & it will contaminate your tank, but you already have that convict acting as carrier so this is a moot point. You will need to treat the whole tank for ich regardless as soon as you get the NH3 down to some reasonable level with pwc.

I would suggest you go to the article section & read the articles on ich and cycling. You need to get on top of both the water & the ich issues ASAP.

 

[jsoong]

Re: how best to save the fish:

Don't bother with meds at this point ... Best thing you can do is fresh clean water ... it is the NH3 in the water that is killing the fish ... you need to get rid of it.

In an emergency like this, I'd change out 80-90% of the water. With hugh water change, you would be advised to add enough dechlor for the entire tank (ie 3 tbsp for your 30 gal tank). The dechlor will bind NH3 to a certain extent so would be helpful.

Just stick with the dechlorinator & don't worry about the stress-zyme. Doesn't work for the cycle. The only product that will establish a cycle is BioSpira (which is a live bacteria culture).

Oh - and get a big (clean, new) bucket --- (or preferably a hose from your tap) ---- you will be doing a lot of water changes in the next little while!

 

[SCFatz]

I agree with jsoong.....a large water change is in order.Don't forget the temp...the larger the change the more important getting it matched becomes so the tank temp won't change,or changes very little.

This is especially key if the population is already stressed for other reasons (such as yours).I move my thermometer to the sink after noting the tank temp and spend a good five minutes getting it very close or dead on before filling buckets.

Add enough declorinator for each bucket as you fill it.Can't go wrong that way.If you are concerned its not enough add a little extra.

Also jsoong mentioned filter media transfer from an established tank.This is a most excellent idea and one of the best ways bring about a new tank ime.

What are you feeding and how much?The food (at this point) = ammonia until the benificial bacteria developes to consume it.So keep it light for now...only what can be consumed in about a minute or two and only once a day.

 

[jamesrm]

I think the good lesson to learn here is a little bit of research goes along way. I made a very simular mistake, I had 2 huge tanks up and running 2-3 years ago, and figured setting up a smaller one would not be a big deal. Because of a simlpe mistake, I lost 4 or 5 fish, which there really was no reason to loose any.

 

[Alshain]

For large water changes, you may want to do 2 to 3 small ones within a 1 or 2 hour period. Suddenly changing the ammount of ammonia in the water can kill the fish just as fast as having it there in the first place. They need to acclimate to the new water so replacing 90% at once is un-advisable. I would do a 50%, then wait an hour and do another 50%. This seems like a pain but its better than shocking the fish more. For a tank that size, I reccomend getting a Python No-Spill. It will be much easier than the blender cup. Petsmart sells these and they aren't too expensive.

Dechlor for the entire tank after each water change and buy your own liquid test kit cause the name "Petsmart" means they are pretty smart at selling pets to un-educated people, not caring for them.

As for the parot, if he is on his side, he may have too much damage already but I've seen fish bounce back and heal. It is possible, but don't get your hopes up too high.

 

[J-Aqua]

Well did a water change right after I got home. The NH3 smell is practically gone. I only smell a small amount if I smell the water. The Jack Dempsey seemed to like the new water change. Never seen him swim so freakin fast. Took me a while to change the water due to the fact that I was using an extra blender cup (haha) with a thermonitor on the side of it! Just for my sake I took out the Parrot fish and put him in a small fish bowl. I didn't know how he would react with the water change. He seemed a little more comfortable in his own bowl for now.

Also I think my fish are really picky with their food. I feed them flakes and the convict floating flakes. convict likes to prey on the floating food for some reason. However they are not eating the flakes only if they fall right infront of their face. When I put the new water in the tank old food started to float everywhere and scattered in the tank. I didn't know what to do so I just cleaned out the filter and let the old floating food or poop settle.

The filter looked pretty bad/and dirty. Should I get a new one or is that normal. they're small brownish spots within the filter. I didn't have time to get a new one, but I have time today if need be. I also didn't pick up the liquid tester. When i do today and change out the water once again what things am I looking for?

Thanks again for all your guys help! Saving my fishies!

P.S. The Jack and the Convict are doing a lot better now. The parrot fish is I think getting there. Also I see no whitetish spots on any of the fish for ick. And the guy that I got the convict from bought a new fish after he got ride of the convict and after that his fish got ick.

J

 

[dskidmore]

Note that "normal" and "healthy" are opposite things in a brand new tank. The petsmart guy has probably seen that number a lot, but that doesn't mean it's good. In the long run we're aiming for 0, although .5 is survivable and easier for you to maintain with water changes.

 

[dskidmore]

Just for my sake I took out the Parrot fish and put him in a small fish bowl. I didn't know how he would react with the water change. He seemed a little more comfortable in his own bowl for now.

I would avoid this in the future, he may have perked up a bit because he was scared. A fish can be injured during netting, so it should be avoided when not necessary. Keeping the water clean in the main tank is the best thing you can do for him.

Also I think my fish are really picky with their food. ...I just cleaned out the filter and let the old floating food or poop settle.

You probably eat less when you're not feeling well. Until you have your ammonia under control, go down to a feeding every other day. Use your fish net to remove any uneaten food after feeding time. When you're doing the big water changes, use that old declorinated water to rinse out your filter media. If your filter media is a sponge or floss, you can just squeze it a few times in the container of old water. Running the media under the tap or replacing it will slow down your cycle.

The filter looked pretty bad/and dirty. Should I get a new one or is that normal.

This is normal. The media will turn a darker color over time. Rinse in old tank water to remove decaying particles, and put it back in. The bacteria growing on the filter are trying to save your fish.

 

[J-Aqua]

Just for my sake I took out the Parrot fish and put him in a small fish bowl. I didn't know how he would react with the water change. He seemed a little more comfortable in his own bowl for now.

I would avoid this in the future, he may have perked up a bit because he was scared. A fish can be injured during netting, so it should be avoided when not necessary. Keeping the water clean in the main tank is the best thing you can do for him.

Also I think my fish are really picky with their food. ...I just cleaned out the filter and let the old floating food or poop settle.

You probably eat less when you're not feeling well. Until you have your ammonia under control, go down to a feeding every other day. Use your fish net to remove any uneaten food after feeding time. When you're doing the big water changes, use that old declorinated water to rinse out your filter media. If your filter media is a sponge or floss, you can just squeze it a few times in the container of old water. Running the media under the tap or replacing it will slow down your cycle.

The filter looked pretty bad/and dirty. Should I get a new one or is that normal.

This is normal. The media will turn a darker color over time. Rinse in old tank water to remove decaying particles, and put it back in. The bacteria growing on the filter are trying to save your fish.

Alright sounds good. When I get the liquid tester kit what should I be looking for? Also should I use a gravel vac to clean up the un-eatin food? Or should I let the be to help with the cycle?

Thxs,
J

 

[rich311k]

You will want to test for ammonia and nitrite. Keep those levels under .5 ppm by changing water. Gravel vac up the uneaten food, it will just make your ammonia levels higher.

 

[severum mama]

When you buy a liquid test kit, look for one that has a test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Many folks here (myself included) use the AP Freshwater Master Test Kit, but there are other brands that are probably just as good or better.

If there is uneaten food on your gravel, then you need to cut back on your feeding. Your fish will not starve, I promise. I agree with dskidmore that one small feeding every other day is appropriate until your cycle is complete.

If your parrot cichlid is not already back in your tank, I would suggest returning him to the tank asap. The water conditions in a fishbowl will quickly be as bad, if not worse, than the conditions in the tank. Plus, he is a tropical fish that needs a stable temp in a heated tank.

Definitely get a hold of a used filter pad, Biowheel, etc. if at all possible. As others pointed out, it will greatly speed up this process.

On a positive note, I started out my first tank in much the same way you are starting yours. A fishy cycle definitely isn't easy, but it is possible for you to ride it out so try not to get discouraged. I started one of my first tanks with a parrot cichlid, and nearly killed all my fish due to some faulty advice I received (from a certain pet store, not from this site). The only survivor was my parrot cichlid, who not only survived a cycle, but a nasty case of ich to boot. I still have him, and he has grown up to be one of my favorite, most personable fish. 8) Just be patient, and keep asking questions here. You will get great advice.