Need advice

[SuCraM]

Hello all i am new to the site so bare with me. I established my 10 gallon tank on March 31st with plants, gravel, and 4 red ryukin fan tail goldfish. A couple of days ago I added 2 more goldfish one bubble eye and a black moor. All fish seem very comfortable and get along well and look very healthy. I have been monitoring the levels of ammonia and nitrate as that is all my test kit allows. I do a 30 percent water change every week so far along with a scrub on the inside walls and vacuum of the gravel. My tests have been good for the first 3 weeks but now after adding my 2 new fish my nitrates have jumped from 0.25 to 5ppm which seems high. My ammonia is at 4ppm which is where it has been for a couple of weeks. Do you guys think i should do another partial water change or just leave it as the cycle is not complete. I know all of you guys are going to ask why i did not cycle the tank and my answer is i was too excited to get fish. I thought goldfish would be a hardy choice to survive the nitro cycle. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

 

[tawolcott]

You need to do a water change and do them often. Are the plants live? I assume you dechlorinate your water first? Stop adding fish. Are you checking for nitrites to get an idea of where you are in the cycle? The nitrates are the least of your problems. You need to get the tank cycled , preferably without killing or torturing, the fish any longer than necessary.

BTW: you have WAY too many fish in that tank

 

[Purrbox]

Your aquarium is way overstocked with that number of goldfish. The common recommendation is 1 goldfish per 10 gallons. You'll need to do larger and/or more frequent water changes to keep the ammonia levels below 1ppm (preferably below 0.5ppm). With that amount of fish you could be looking at several water changes in a single day during the cycle. Pick up a Nitrite test ASAP as you'll need to keep those levels below 1ppm (preferably below 0.5ppm) as well.

I would seriously recommend taking the fish back and exchanging them for fish that are more appropriate for a 10 gallon aquarium. If possible, take store credit for the fish so that you can do a fishless cycle instead, which would allow you to fully stock the aquarium all at once after the cycle is complete.

 

[SuCraM]

You need to do a water change and do them often. Are the plants live? I assume you dechlorinate your water first? Stop adding fish. Are you checking for nitrites to get an idea of where you are in the cycle? The nitrates are the least of your problems. You need to get the tank cycled , preferably without killing or torturing, the fish any longer than necessary.

BTW: you have WAY too many fish in that tank

Yes the plant is live and I do dechlorinate the water prior to adding it. Is there a test kit for nitrites? If so what should be the levels? How will I know when the cycle is complete? i agree that is a tad overcrowed for a 10 gallon but am planning on getting a 55 gallon going soon to put them in.

 

[Purrbox]

The cycle is complete once Ammonia and Nitrite are 0 and Nitrates are rising.

During the cycle you will see Ammonia rise, peak, and then drop to zero. While Ammonia is dropping you will see Nitrite start to rise. Nitrite will also rise, peak, and then drop to zero. Once the Nitrites start to drop, you'll see the Nitrates start to increase. The reason that Nitrates must be rising for the cycle to be complete is that it is possible for Nitrates to be pre existing in your tap water, so testing for it's presense isn't enough.

 

[jsoong]

There is a nitrite test kit (by AP, Haugen & others). If you have the Haugen (Nutrifin/Lauguina Pond) Nitrate kit (3 reagents), you can also use the Nitrate reagent 1 & 2 to test for nitrite.

Generally in establishing the cycle, you first have an ammonia spike (like you are having). Ammonia gets converted to nitrite, so the level falls & nitrite spikes. Finally nitrite gets converted to nitrates, so nitrite level falls & nitrate rises. You know you have a complete cycle when ammonia & nitrite are consistently zero & nitrate is rising. This will take 6-8 weeks in a cold water tank, but you can speed things up considerably by seeding with material from an established tank. <BTW, high nitrite will give false reading for nitrate, which is likely what you are seeing .... don't worry about the nitrates for now .... and safe level for nitrate is 20-40 ppm.>

You have way too many fish for a 10 gal fishie cycle. Generally 2 small fantails are all you can handle in that setup. With 6 fish, you will be doing large (50-75%) water changes once or twice a day. At this point, your goal is to keep the ammonia under 1 at all times ... with a level of 4, you are looking at 75% pwc, as often as needed. I would suggest taking back some of your fish to make cycling easier on yourself. <And contrary to popular belief, goldies are not easy fish for cycling. Your moor might do OK, but the true fancies are rather sensitive to water condition and will not survive cycling .... they may be fine for a few week, but then die within the next month or 2 from the stress.>

One final point ... when you upgrade, do consider other tank size rather than the 55. That tank size is too narrow (front to back) for good gas exchange for keeping golds. <And also too deep (top to bottom) to get good light for plants.> For a 4 foot tank, aim for a 70 or 80 gal show, or maybe a 60 breeder.

 

[SuCraM]

Cool thank you all so much for the advice on cycling and everything else. I am planning on returning the fantails and keeping the black moor and bubble eye for the cycle. I will keep you all updated.

 

[tawolcott]

Why not return them all and cycle fishless?

 

[SuCraM]

Why not return them all and cycle fishless?

Ya I may just return them all but i would love to have something in there to take care of and look at.

 

[jsoong]

You might want to return the bubble eye, this is one of the more sensitive breed of fancies. Most hardy for cycling would be the moor & a self colour (ie all orange) metallic fantail.

 

[Karegg]

Ya I may just return them all but i would love to have something in there to take care of and look at.

Patience is definitely key in this hobby - rushing into things will likely result in dead fish and a lot of frustration. Take things slowly. Remember to always research your purchases (you're always welcome, and recommended, to post here with your plans) before buying them. You don't want to end up with something that will hurt, or be hurt by, fish in your tank.

I'd return the fish for credit. After your fishless cycle is complete, you will be able to happily stock your tank. Add your fish slowly, at a rate of just 1-2 every couple weeks at most. This will allow additional bacteria to build up to accommodate the new ammonia sources.

When your tank is fully stocked you can look back and know you did the right thing by not subjecting your pets to toxic conditions. Patience, patience, patience, and you will have an amazing tank in no time.

 

[SuCraM]

Thanks very much Karegg for your advice. I called the LFS and they told me that i can not get a refund or credit because i bought them at a sale price. All
sales final and no returns whatsoever. Oh well I guess I will just keep them all and hopefully they will survive the cycle. I did another PWC this morning and tested the ammonia and nitrite and I got 2ppm ammonia and 1ppm nitrite.

 

[Purrbox]

Are there any other LFS in your area? Perhaps they would take them off your hands, even though the original LFS won't.

 

[tawolcott]

Do you have a friend with a tank that might give you some used filter material, some gravel and/or some decorations to borrow to help kickstart this cycle? Or that would house the fish until? If not, you might want to consider just giving them back since there's a good possibility all/most/some aren't gonna make it thru.

I'd make it clear to the good ole LFS that from now on I'll be buying somewhere else (online, another store) and thank them for the great customer service. The least they could do is offer some help or sugestions

 

[SuCraM]

Do you have a friend with a tank that might give you some used filter material, some gravel and/or some decorations to borrow to help kickstart this cycle? Or that would house the fish until? If not, you might want to consider just giving them back since there's a good possibility all/most/some aren't gonna make it thru.

I'd make it clear to the good ole LFS that from now on I'll be buying somewhere else (online, another store) and thank them for the great customer service. The least they could do is offer some help or sugestions

No I do not have a friend that can give me anything. I know one other guy that just established his 55 gallon a week ago and it is not cycled yet. He is wondering why his first set of fish died and I laughed and told him to do some reading on the internet. I will call around and see if any LFS will take them off my hands.

 

[Karegg]

No I do not have a friend that can give me anything. I know one other guy that just established his 55 gallon a week ago and it is not cycled yet. He is wondering why his first set of fish died and I laughed and told him to do some reading on the internet. I will call around and see if any LFS will take them off my hands.

Sucks to give them up, but it really is the best way to go.
Get your friend on the forums!

 

[marchmaxima]

I concur with the others here. You should give them up and start a fishless cycle. While that's going on, you can read and research the most appropriate fishy-pets for you and plan your tank accordingly.

And never be afraid to ask questions. We were all newbies too once.

 

[jsoong]

PJ's used to sell bioballs from established tank, that would be one way to get at some seeding material. Although I am not too fond of PJ's tank health, there are some good lfs in Calgary. Phone around to see if some will give you some media from their tank.

 

[SuCraM]

Well I have decided to keep them as I can not find a home for them and the LFS that i have contacted will not take them. I am thinking they will survive because I have been monitoring my ammonia and nitrite and they are both slowly going to 0ppm. Tested last night and got 0 ammonia and 1ppm nitrite. i am thinking my cycle will be complete in the next couple of weeks. Thanks to everyone for all of the advice and I look forward to learning alot from this forum in the future to ensure my tank is nice and healthy.

 

[marchmaxima]

I definitely wouldn't be going back to that LFS...

Good luck with the cycling. Keep up those water changes. Test daily.