New 65 gallon aquarium

[FRSChick]

Hello there!
I am fairly new to the aquarium hobby, so I welcome your advice! I hope that this is posted in the correct place, my apologies if it is not.
So I set up my 65 gallon (36 in long x 18 in wide/deep x 24 in high) that I got around New Years.

I have a canister filter that my uncle gave me called ProAquatics Canister Filter 1600. It filters 160 GPH and it says it is good for up to 75 Gallons.
I have the following filter media in it:
Thick coarse foam pad
fluval zeo carb bag
fluval clearmax bag
ceramic cylinder media with a few bio gel balls added to start the biological bacteria
water polishing pads.

I have slowly added the following fish (all juveniles) over the past month:

4 Angelfish (2 nickel sized, 2 quarter sized)
2 golden dojo loaches (I would say these are medium large, one is albino)
6 Khuli (spelling? I switch the u and h ordering a lot... sorry) loaches
1 fancy goldfish (small)
1 medium sized red tail black shark
1 very large nerite snail (quarter sized)
1 small hi fin plecostomus (there is algae for him to eat, I see it)

I realize that I probably added the fish too quickly over the past month but they are all babies and I've watched the ammonia level, it has not spiked. I also have API Ammo lock that I can add.

The leave in Ammonia Alert tester says between 0.02 and 0.05 ppm (I know, not ideal, trying to lower it).
Since the Nitrite and nitrate levels are very very low, I am just watching ammonia for now until bacteria colony grows (hence the addition of the gel beneficial bacteria balls). I've added API quick start too, many times, a bit with each fish addition.

There are ample hiding spaces and territories for everyone.

I realize dojos and goldish are cold water fish.... tank temp is 77. I got the goldfish to add color and eat the nerite snail eggs.

I have the following questions/concerns:

1. Did I overstock this tank for the future? I don't plan to add any more fish, but I'm wondering if other than maybe the pleco that the tank won't be big enough for when they all grow up? The red tail shark has doubled in size in a month, I guess he loves the tank

2. Do I need to add more filtration? I can add a hang on back filter if you think more filtration is needed. If needed, should I add it now or as the fish get larger? What size (GPH or tank size) filter should I add?

3. Is my tank not yet cycled? Is that why I have a higher ammonia level with still low nitrites and nitrates? I've done a gravel vac and replaced the zeo carb and clearmax and added the bacteria gel balls a week ago. Does it take 2 to 3 months to cycle a 65 g tank?

4. Will adding live plants help keep the tank cleaner later on when the fish grow larger?

Thanks!

 

[SherLar]

I don't think you're over-stocked exactly, but my advice would be to rehome both the goldfish and red-tailed shark.
Goldfish get large, produce a lot of waste, and aren't really great for community tanks. If it were a goldfish only tank, you could get by with 2 or 3, but I think 1 goldfish can produce twice the bio-load as 2 similarly sized fish.
THe red-tailed shark will be highly aggressive, and literally harass some of your other fish to death. THey're pretty fish, but really only do well in an aggressive setup. Your loaches will never come out of hiding, and your angel's fins will likely all be shredded.

 

[FRSChick]

When does the red tailed shark aggression start?
Mine is already twice the size as my Angels (3.25 inches) and about half his full size and he leaves them be. Does the aggression not truly start until they are 5 plus inches?
I have plenty of hiding caves for him. He hides WITH the loaches when they do hide.
But the loaches are out alot as well and he shows no aggression towards them at all. Never has, only slight aggression towards the goldfish and angels when first added. He (the shark) eats the algae wafers right alongside the loaches.
I understand about the goldfish who right now is a tad smaller than the shark. He gets chased sometime but his fins are fine.

 

[SherLar]

It could be that you have a red-tailed shark that isn't very aggressive. I'm sure they exist, I just haven't ever seen one. When I've had them, the aggression began as soon as they were in the tank, and grew worse as the fish grew larger. If it isn't showing overt aggression, then I'd leave it in the tank, but keep a careful eye on it. They really are striking fish.
I think you're safe rehoming the goldfish. If you get any snail eggs, the other fish will likely eat them as well as the goldfish would.
How long did you cycle your tank before adding fish, and what testing method do you use? It can take a couple months for a tank to fully cycle, though it usually happens sooner, depending on how much ammonia you add during the cycling process. Once it's cycled, your ammonia and nitrites should both be at 0 ppm. Nitrates should be as low as possible, but will never disappear completely. <40 ppm is usually the recommended safe area, but most fish can tolerate a bit higher for a short time. If your ammonia and nittrites are still above 0 ppm, you may want to do frequent water changes until you get them under control.

 

[FRSChick]

Thanks. I am not sure that I have completed a cycle yet to be honest. I've never seen a spike in anything other than the elevation in Ammonia which is around 0.05 ppm.
I'm currently using the Seachem Ammonia Alert to watch the ammonia level in the tank constantly. I'm using the API strips that test 5 things to monitor the nitrites and nitrates. I've never seen them elevated.
I had a liquid API test for ammonia but it showed the same level of ammonia in bottled water from the store, my tap, AND the tank. All three of those really shouldn't be the same. So I took that back to the store, I think it got contaminated somehow.
Do you think my filtration is adequate? I can buy a hand on the back filter, I'm just not sure what GPH rating to get. I've been told to get a 300 GPH one and then I've also been told that that would be too much.

 

[FRSChick]

So I finally got the API Freshwater Master Test kit in the mail today.
The Seachem Ammonia Alert is still on the Alert stage ~0.05 ppm.
I know there can be a slight difference in between API liquid ammonia tests and the Seachem test because the latter only measures free toxic ammonia.
However...
The API result test was off the charts at 8ppm, but I still have no nitrites or nitrates. O, zero, zip, nada.

Why is my tank not cycling?!?

My fish all seem ok, they would be dead if the ammonia was actually 8ppm but they all seem perfectly fine.
I tested my tap water, it is 1 ppm.

I don't know what to do except keep testing and making sure the fish look ok.

Please help.

 

[freash.water]

I would also recommend rejoining the red tailed shark and the gold fish. The reason is red tailed sharks get big, the gold fish need cooler water then the rest which are tropical fish.

 

[FRSChick]

Thanks for your rehoming suggestions but that is not the purpose of this post. Please stop suggestiong this. The shark is more than half grown now. I know they get "big" if you call 6 inches big. The goldfish and dojos are just fine at 77. I just wanted to know if I have overstocked the tank
The main reason for my post is that I don't think I can/have cycled this tank. I am keeping all the fish I currently have as long as they keep getting along and appear healthy.
I decided to add 350 additional GPH filtration to the tank in hopes that this will help the beneficial bacteria colony establish and therefore I can cycle the tank .the increase in filtration should also help in the future when the fish are larger.

 

[SherLar]

I would suggest that you keep up with daily testing; and, until you get your ammonia levels down, do a daily water change of 50%. Eventually, even with ammonia in your tap water, your bacteria will build and your water parameters will level out.
I've never known API test kits to be incorrect, but it's possible you got a defective kit. 8 ppm ammonia would be pretty toxic, you're right. You can get detoxifying agents at most LFS and pet stores. If you use one, however, keep in mind that the ammonia will still show up on tests; it just won't be as harmful to your fish.
Whenever I set up a new tank (opinions vary on the merits of this), I add a piece of filter media from a healthy, established tank into the filter of the new tank. This helps a bacteria colony get started in the new tank, as the bacteria is already established on the media from the established tank.
You can buy bacterial starter agents in liquid form where ever you buy fish food, and some people swear by them, but I've never found them to be much use.
So, to reiterate: daily tests, daily 50% water changes until your tank parameters are normal.
Regarding your goldfish: I won't advise rehoming it again. I'm going to say a word about goldfish and water temp however. We have every type of goldfish imaginable in our ponds, from koi to fancy goldfish. If they were unable to withstand temp variances, we would have to buy new fish every year. We don't, and too often, many types will breed, leaving us with multitudes of fry to rehome. Our ponds will sometimes have water temps into the high 80s during the summer months, and the fish suffer no ill effects. I don't understand why so many people advise rehoming them based on water temp preferences. My only concerns are potential size and waste production.

 

[Toad]

Everything I find about so called high fin plecos is that they are sailfin plecos. If it is, you're looking at it growing to around 20in long and being a waste machine. People recommend not keeping goldfish with plecos because sometimes the plecs will suck the slime coat off such slower moving fish. Sailfins are known for this is general. Also, if your angel fish pair off, your goldfish could get shredded by them. There are multiple issues with keeping this tank (which I would say is overstocked if you plan on keeping them all through adulthood, especially the pleco) stocking the way it is, and the goldfish will be the most likely target for harassment. Do or do not do anything with that knowledge, that's up to you as a fish keeper.

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[FRSChick]

I bought gel bacteria balls and put some of those in with the ceramic filter media on Jan 29. I've also been adding API quick start.
Thank you, sorry that message wasn't directed towards you but the other person commenting. I should have used their name/handle. I did have the overstocking issues/concerns myself so we will see how that goes as he grows. If I need to, I can give him to my local fish store, or we were thinking of making a pond in a few years.
Will water changes mess up the bacteria colony growth? I'm wondering if I have too much total Ammonia even though most isn't toxic to the fish but it's making the beneficial bacteria not be able to grow?

 

[SherLar]

There really isn't enough bacteria in the water column to make a difference one way or another. Most of your bacteria will grown and colonize on your filter media, and your substrate and decor. Thus, doing water changes will only remove toxins, not bacteria.
I'm not a microbiologist, but I don't believe your ammonia is too high for the ammonia "eating" bacteria to process. Some types of bacteria process ammonia, turning it into less harmful nitrites. Other types of bacteria process the nitrites, turning them into still less harmful nitrates.
Don't give up on the process. I know it's frustrating, but your tank will stabilize, hopefully sooner rather than later. When it does, you'll find that the rewards were well worth the effort.

 

[FRSChick]

Update: the added filtration worked! I bought a HOB Marineland 350 GPH filter with the bio wheels.
Finally saw a nitrite spike! Did about a 50% water change and I will continue to do testing!
Thanks so much everyone for your help!