New tank frustrations - high ammonia

[TBallad]

Hi everyone,

We got our son a 14 gallon tank for Christmas, and have had nothing but problems so far. I'm really hoping someone here can give us something new to try! We started the tank out with plain old tap water (bad, I know that now!), some colored gravel and a couple of decorations. When we went to the fish store, they gave me something called "Stability" to add before I put fish in the tank. Did that, the water clouded up badly and the first batch of fish (3 neon tetras) died within hours. We went back, did a water test and the ammonia was off the charts. We added Ammonia Safe and Prime. We've been doing water changes, added an ammonia filter and aquarium salt to try to buffer the pH but can't get the ammonia below 1.0 We've tried adding some zebra danios thinking we needed to get fish in the tank to get it to cycle, but all 5 of them have died - they lasted a week though!

I'm out of ideas and the expert at the fish store is just as baffled. Does anyone have any clue what I can do to get this tank going successfully? Should I empty the tank, wash everything and start over? The fish store is telling me that's the worst possible thing I could do but I'm out of ideas. Could something be leaching into the water from the gravel and/or decorations? I don't think we washed them before putting them in the tank. Our nitrites and nitrates are all good.

Thanks for any and all help!
Tricia Ballad

 

[ejaramillo01]

Sorry to heard your experience, but a lot of us experienced something similar in our first contact with this hobby.

I encourage you to read the fishless cycle thread posted in this forum, this will give you the best way to proceed to re start your tank again.

My opinion is to re start the tank with no fish, you can go ahead and clean the gravel or rinsed with water because looks like still have a lot dust and debris.

You will need to have a liquid master test kit to measure the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates levels in the tank during your cycle process, and you will need to buy pure ammonia from a hardware store to start the fishless cycle.

Please read the fishless cycle and start the process and keep posting your questions during your journey that a lot of good advice here will keep you on track

 

[TBallad]

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction! I will pick up a master test kit this afternoon (I already have the ammonia kit).

Would you suggest emptying the tank (no fish in there currently) and starting with fresh distilled water, or just testing and trying to figure out where we are in the cycle?

 

[ejaramillo01]

I would say to do a 50% water change at least, this will help you to clean the dust from the gravel.

Also what kind of filter do you have?

 

[TBallad]

Also what kind of filter do you have?

It's an Aqueon filter.

 

[ejaramillo01]

OK, what size?
These filters work with a cartridge in the back. Don't replace the cartridge, if is to full of "stuff" just rinsed with water from the tank.

Also really important when you do the water change, the new water must be treated with a chlorine remover, i will recomend you PRIME, they sale it in most of the pet stores, just follow the directions, when adding the PRIME to the new water, add that amount to cover the whole tank. The directions in the bottle will be clear enough for you

Good luck

 

[TBallad]

The filter is rated to 20 gallons, so should be fine for our 14 gallon tank.

I've been doing partial water changes (1-2 gallons) with RO distilled water, adding PRIME at each change. I've only been adding 1-2 gallons dosage, not the full 14 gallon dosage at each change though.

Does RO water have chlorine in it?

thank you so much for all your help!

 

[BigJim]

Welcome to AA!

You've found a whole bunch of common newbie pitfalls. We'll do our best to get you straightened out.

My comments below in blue:

Hi everyone,
We started the tank out with plain old tap water (bad, I know that now!), some colored gravel and a couple of decorations.

When we went to the fish store, they gave me something called "Stability" to add before I put fish in the tank. Did that, the water clouded up badly and the first batch of fish (3 neon tetras) died within hours.

We went back, did a water test and the ammonia was off the charts. We added Ammonia Safe and Prime. We've been doing water changes, added an ammonia filter and aquarium salt to try to buffer the pH but can't get the ammonia below 1.0

We've tried adding some zebra danios thinking we needed to get fish in the tank to get it to cycle, but all 5 of them have died - they lasted a week though!

I'm out of ideas and the expert at the fish store is just as baffled. Does anyone have any clue what I can do to get this tank going successfully? Should I empty the tank, wash everything and start over? The fish store is telling me that's the worst possible thing I could do but I'm out of ideas. Could something be leaching into the water from the gravel and/or decorations? I don't think we washed them before putting them in the tank. Our nitrites and nitrates are all good.

Thanks for any and all help!
Tricia Ballad

If your tank is empty of fish, read up on fishless cycling here on AA. The fishless cycle will establish the bacteria needed to handle ammonia and keep your water in good shape. There's no need to clean the tank unless it's dirty. Lose the ammonia filter and the aquarim salt while you're at it. They're just crutches.

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction! I will pick up a master test kit this afternoon (I already have the ammonia kit).

Would you suggest emptying the tank (no fish in there currently) and starting with fresh distilled water, or just testing and trying to figure out where we are in the cycle?

+1 for the API master test kit. If you follow the directions, it gives good results. Just use tap water and a dechlorinator like Prime. The distilled water isn't necessary. Get some pure ammonia and go the fishless cycle route.

It's an Aqueon filter.

The filter is rated to 20 gallons, so should be fine for our 14 gallon tank.

I've been doing partial water changes (1-2 gallons) with RO distilled water, adding PRIME at each change. I've only been adding 1-2 gallons dosage, not the full 14 gallon dosage at each change though.

Does RO water have chlorine in it?

thank you so much for all your help!

You'll be surprised how badly manufacturers over rate their filters. General rule of thumb is to take the filter's rating and cut it in half to get a practical rating. You can always add a second filter in tandem with your current filter.

If you don't have fish, there's no need to do any PWCs. Let the ammonia stay in the tank for now. You need ammonia to cycle the tank.

RO water shouldn't have anything in it if it's pure. This is both good and bad. You've removed all the bad impurities, but you've also removed the buffers that keep your pH stable. Unless your tap water is atrocious, it'll be fine.

 

[TBallad]

Thanks - I appreciate the help I've gotten so far! Our son has wanted a fish tank for quite a while and I would hate to see him give up now. I've learned more in the couple of hours I've spent reading these forums than in the past three weeks of carting water samples to the fish store and dumping random chemicals in the tank!

I'll b
About filters - the last time I had a tank (15 years ago) we had an under gravel filter. The one that came with this tank hangs over the side. Would it help to get an under gravel filter to supplement the existing one? Or a second over the side?

 

[BigJim]

There are lots of very helpful people here. Ask any question you may have, no matter how stupid you think it is.

Undergravel filters work well, but I'd go with another HOB power filter. They take up less room in the tank and you can customize them more than the UGF. I'm a big fan of AquaClears.

 

[TBallad]

Unless your tap water is atrocious, it'll be fine.

Define "atrocious"

 

[BigJim]

Some people have high nitrate problems with their tap water. Otherwise, unless it comes out in chunks and you can eat it with a fork, your tap water is probably fine for your aquarium.

 

[fort384]

+1 for using your tap water... distilled water will cause serious pH problems unless you are adding buffers back in while using it.

Everything you described in your first post is very normal for trying to start a tank with fish... and neons are very sensitive to ammonia, so they are about the worst possible fish to put in an uncycled tank.

I would steer clear of the "expert" who was giving you advice at the store. The fact that he was baffled by your situation tells me he probably does know a whole lot about setting up a new tank.

It is always a pain to get a tank started, and frustrating to wait on the cycle to take hold... but once the cycle happens (it will seem like forever from now) aquarium maintenance becomes very easy. Unfortunately, many people never get past it, and give up in frustration... but believe me it is worth it!

Fishless cycling is a good way to go, so I agree that if you have lost all the fish, this will be the best way forward.

Best of luck, and welcome to AA!

 

[TBallad]

Just did my first full water test - results are below. I'm thinking the high pH and ammonia coupled with zero nitrites and zero nitrates indicates that I just don't have any/enough bacteria in the tank?

What can I do to encourage bacteria? I've cranked up the heater on the tank as suggested in the fish less cycle thread. I've got a bottle of Stability - would adding that per bottle directions be a good idea at this point? Do I need to add more ammonia to jumpstart the fish less cycle, or just let it go since I have a stable ammonia level? It's been at 1.0 - 2.0 for a couple of weeks.

Test results:
pH: 7.6
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 2.0
Temp: 75

Thanks to you all for helping make this a successful project!

 

[Durvish]

Get a bottle of pure Ammonia and read this thread -- http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/fishless-cycling-for-dummies-103339.html

 

[ejaramillo01]

When I did the fishless cycle, I added ammonia to hit 4ppm, that should be enough, and then will start the waiting period, don't get desperate, will take time but be patience.

As bigJim said no more partial water changes, add a liitle more ammonia to get up to 4 ppm, be sure the ammonia is free of surfactants, soaps, etc, must be diluted pure ammonia, most of them come at 10% . I bought mine at ACE hardware store.

Keep going you are in the right track.
Keep us posted

 

[BigJim]

2ppm of ammonia is fine to use for the fishless cycle. It's not an exact science.

The best way to encourage bacteria growth is to seed the tank with bacteria. See if you can get some filter media or gravel from an established tank. Ask your LFS if you don't know anyone with a tank. If you're up near Chicago any time soon, let me know and I'll let you have some biomedia from one of my tanks.

You will need more ammonia soon. I've had success with the $1 bottle from Walmart. It has surfactants, but it doesn't foam when shaken, so it's good.

 

[TBallad]

I'll ask around for some used gravel or filter media - someone in the local homeschool group is bound to have an established tank. I appreciate the offer, but we won't be up near Chicago until sometime next month.

 

[TBallad]

Found someone with an established tank - how much gravel do I need? Just a handful will do, or quite a bit?

 

[fort384]

the more the better... but a handful will do.

If it is a different color and you don't want it to mix in, you can put it into a new pair of pantyhose and then stick it into the back of your filter or into the bottom of your tank.