New tank syndrome?

[veggievettech]

I need help! I suppose I have "new tank syndrome"...
I am a new aquarist. I bought a 20 gallon tank kit about a month ago.
The tank ran fishless for 3 days before I added 4 mollys and some aquarium salt. Everything was going well for 3 weeks. I was doing once a week 10% water changes using a gravel pump and water testing. Per the people at the pet store, everything was normal.
At that point, I lost 2 fish suddenly. I had the water tested again and the ammonia was high and there were no nitrates. I was given a bacteria supplement, which I added after a 20% water change.
The next morning, I had a moderate algae growth on the tank glass that I never had before (coincidence? I don't know...). I tested the water again- ammonia still high (I don't know the exact parameters. Test was done by pet store). I was told to do a 50% water change and add "easy balance with nitraban". I did. I lost a third Molly overnight.
I now only have one Molly in my tank.
What do I do? Am I on the right track? Do I continue to change the water? If so, how often? Is the bacteria supplement helpful with the ammonia? Will I lose this last fish? If I do, when is it safe to add new fish? I have a ton of questions!
I'm completely lost and I'm reading MANY different things! It breaks my heart to keep losing these fish!!
Please help!! thanks!

 

[fort384]

Wow. Where to begin?

First off, stop adding chemicals to the tank. The fish store loves to tell you you need them because it makes them money.

Second, read up on the nitrogen cycle and cycling your tank. You can find lots of info in the articles section of the forum.

Third, if the last molly lives, you can continue to cycle the tank, but it will require almost daily 25%+ water changes. If you lose the molly, which sounds almost iminent, then I recommend starting over with a fishless cycle.

Also now that the unstable water and combo of chemicals has started an algae problem, I would keep the lights off as much as possible.

Fourth, pick up a testkit. Liquid tests are best, more accurate than the strip tests.

Keep reading on here, you will find a ton of useful info. Be leery of your local fish store. It sounds like they have already given you some questionable advice, and the sad truth is they are in it for the money, and/or do not have a good sound knowledge base for fish keeping. If you have questions or need clarification on anything you read in the articles, feel free to ask.

 

[buddha_red]

Yes get a liquid test kit, i like API master kit. Once you have this, we will be able to tell you where in the cycle you are currently. Sounds as if you hit the ammonia spike so a test kit is critical.

Only add water conditioner (removes chlorine) when your changing the water.

 

[fort384]

Only add water conditioner (removes chlorine) when your changing the water.

Yes, this is true, I neglected to mention this - the only chemical you need to add to your water is a good dechlorinator. Add it according to instructions BEFORE adding the water to the tank.

 

[veggievettech]

Thanks for responding!
ok. I think i have a grasp on the nitrogen cycle. I understand how it works, but getting it going is what I'm not clear on. How do I cycle the tank with no fish? don't I need them to establish bacteria colonies? Don't I need ammonia for the bacteria to eat? ugh.
Everything I've read says to do "frequent" water changes... what does that mean? daily?... weekly?
For now, I suppose I'll do partial changes every day to attempt to save my last fish.
I agree about the chemicals... I think I knew it wasn't the solution, but I didn't know what else to do.
I really appreciate any help I can get!

 

[fort384]

With fish in the tank, you will want to do daily 25% or so water changes until your bacterial colony is established. Once you have established nitrobacter and nitrosomas, they will keep the ammonia and nitrite levels down, so then you will be able to go back to weekly or so 10-20% PWCs (partial water changes). This can take several weeks to get established.

If you happen to lose the fish, then you can do what is called a fishless cycle. There are some great articles on it on this site, but you are correct: You have to seed the tank with PURE (no surficants added) ammonia to feed the nitrobacter. Or, you can use a raw shrimp... you throw it in the tank and it breaks down, releasing ammonia into the water. Again, if you have to go this route you will want to read the article; it explains in detail the steps required to do a successful fishless cycle.

I would say priority now needs to be a good test kit. As buddha mentioned, the API freshwater master kit has everything included you need to get started. It is about $20-25 and available at most LFS's.

 

[jim692]

Welcome to AA

Many here (including me) have been in the same situation that you are now in. Don't worry it gets better the more questions you ask, and the more you learn. I agree with the advice you already have been given.

The only thing you really need to add to your water is a conditioner (Seachem prime or the like) to remove chlorine/chloramine.
The test kit (most use a API Freshwater master test kit) will let you keep track of th pH, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. These results will let you keep track of the water quality. Test daily for ammonia and nitrite while cycling the tank.
During the cycling of the tank, partial water changes (PWC) will let you keep the levels of ammonia and nitrites low enough to keep the fish alive. Most believe that when cycling with fish you do a PWC whenever the ammonia or nitrite level reach .25 ppm.

Some good reading on the topic:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articles/articles/43/1/New-tank-mistakes/Page1.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/common-newbie-pitfalls-67468.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articles/articles/24/1/Nitrogen-Cycle-/Page1.html
Aquarium Nitrogen cycle and cycling. Methods for ammonia, nitrite removal.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...ks-for-your-fastest-fishless-cycle/Page1.html
Tropical Fish Centre - Fishless Cycling Revisited
Beginner FAQ: Water Chemistry
BioFiltration
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/sharing-my-fishkeeping-blunders-110485.html#post952483

It will get better and give you the enjoyment you thought a tank would.

 

[fort384]

Many here (including me) have been in the same situation that you are now in. Don't worry it gets better the more questions you ask, and the more you learn.

Yup, me too! Check out the first few posts in my 29G log linked in my signature block... I did the same thing when I started. Set the tank up for a day, and added a TON of fish. My LFS said it would be fine..." After the problems started, i ended up here and never looked back. I couldn't be happier with how my tanks are going, thanks to the great advice I have received on here.

 

[veggievettech]

Awesome. Thanks everyone! I feel like I have learned SO much! I wish I had found this site a month ago!!
I will be purchasing a test kit tomorrow. Just did another water change. Good news is that my molly looks great. very active and has a great appetite. Cross your fingers that Captain Jack Sparrow hangs in there!
I'll try to post what my test kit says... maybe someone can tell me where I am in the cycle.
thanks again! Glad to know I'm not alone!

 

[bluerose]

If you happen to lose the fish, then you can do what is called a fishless cycle. There are some great articles on it on this site, but you are correct: You have to seed the tank with PURE (no surficants added) ammonia to feed the nitrobacter.

It's actually surfactants-- soap added to the ammonia. I believe most here get it at Ace Hardware.

Water changes, water changes, water changes will save your last fishy. He may be a lonely boy but definitely don't add any more until the tank is cycled.

Good luck!

 

[missileman]

The only thing that will actually speed up the cycle and make it easier on your fish is seeding (adding) live nitrofying bacteria to your tank.
The only reliable sources that I know of are bacteria from an established tank (such as used filter cartride, squeezings from a filter sponge, a hand full of gravel, etc...) or a product made by Marineland called Bio-Spira which has to be kept refrigerated.

 

[veggievettech]

ok.... here are today's results
Before water change:
nitrate 0
nitrite 0
pH 6.5
KH 120
GH 0
Ammonia 1.0

after about 50% water change:
nitrate 0
nitrite 0
pH 7.5
KH 180
GH 0
ammonia 0.5

The last molly is still doing great. Should I continue to change the water everyday? Am I making progress?

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

It's a good idea when you want an aquarium, to set it up with a few plants, gravel, filter running and no fish. add a few drops of ammonia as was said, as needed and admire the tank as is for about 2 months. Practice testing your water.... feed and raise the bacteria. You cant really hurt the bacteria or the plants.

LOL

in 6-8 weeks, you'll have a nice film of bacteria on everything. By them the water should be stable after you observed the levels rise and fall.

You have a good start, if your molly lives great. if by chance it does not, and you are now fishless, stop changing the water, start keeping the ammonia level readable and let nature fix the problem over the next few months.

Time and bacteria....

 

[ronin33]

Also a beginner. Would it be prudent to add cured live rock? You would think it already houses bacteria capable of breaking down Ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. Seems like most authors agree that a Fishless cycle w LR is actually faster. Probably won't save the last Molly, but may facilitate having a more natural Biofilter in your tank and get you closer to a more stable environment.
Question: Will too many water changes actually impede the cycle?

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

if it were my tank, I'd put the molly in a gallon glass jug or a nice fishbowl, and change HIS water about 50% every other day or 3. Thats only a 1/2 gal change! (give him an little airstone and plant).
Then leave the main tank age properly.

The molly will be happy, you'll have no stress, and life will be beautiful.

 

[jim692]

Should I continue to change the water everyday? Am I making progress?

Test the water with your test kit daily for ammonia and nitrites. Do 50% water changes when either reading is .25 ppm or higher. I would do a water change daily until the readings get below the .25 ppm threshold, then as testing dictates.
Yes, you are making great progress. You may not know all the answers yet, but you do know the right questions. That can be just as important. When dealing with a new tank, or any tank, slow and steady are usually a winning combo.

Question: Will too many water changes actually impede the cycle?

Water changes will not stop a cycle but it will slow it down some. The fish can't take the high levels of ammonia and nitrite as in a fishless cycle. So, You do PWC's to keep the levels low enough for the fish to survive. In the end you still get a cycled tank.

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

if you put the last fish you have in a bowl, you can turn the heat up in the tank, and put a powerhead in there to get the water currents going strong, both of which will promote the bacteria growth quite a lot.

 

[veggievettech]

I'm feeling optimistic. While I'm still struggling with high ammonia (2 ppm before today's water change), nitrates have made their first appearance! I'm going to take that as a sign that things are moving in the right direction.
I am considering moving Captain Jack into a fishbowl, but he's continuing to do very well

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

The ammonia will burn his gills, and he might seem fine for a while then just croak on ya.

 

[jim692]

Do a 50% water change and get the ammonia reading down. If it is still high do another water change tonight. Readings that high are bad for the fish.