newbie to fish

[metcalfe]

first of all,

hi there people from the forum!

i've been reading stuff about fish on your forum and some other places, and i fount this particular place very good

at first i was considering having some aquarium type animal, so that i could have it in my room without any special smells or fur or anything like that.

i went after some reading and i finally elected fish

my problem: i am a total noob about this stuff, i only had a canaries (about 2 or 3) my whole life


considering all that i've read i think guppies or goldfish are the easiest fish to maintain, dunno if i'm being surrealist but i'd like them to reproduce so that i could see them through several generations (and probably get more friends to the fish hobbie ) - the species are also based on what i've seen in local pet shops


what kind of fish do you recomend?

relating to aquariums and equipment, i was thinking on buying something not very small, but also not very expensive, i'll check prices and post here
now about equipment, does one really need all that jazz? what's the strictly essential eqipment? (realisticly speaking)

i think that probably sums it up, thanx for any help at all

 

[Jchillin]

Welcome to AA!

Let's get you off on the right foot. Goldfish and guppies are easy to keep but they need proper care to thrive. Since you cannot have both in the same tank (guppies require heat of at least 76F, while goldfish can bascially be kept at room temp...68F), you will have to decide which one to go with.

Goldfish can also get very large and if they are breeding, you can easily run out of room in a tank that's less than 30gals.

Guppies are livebearer's which means that they give birth like humans do. They are more prolific than goldfish (more offspring). If you want to go this route, I would recommend a 20 gal tank minimum.

Equipment - Besides the tank, you will need a decent bio-filter. An HOB is the best route to go. Aqua-Clear filters are great and are easy to maintain.

Heaters - If you go with guppies, a heater is essential. I recommend the Visi-Therm 100w heater. No maintenance required. Set it and forget it.

Substrate - Pea sized aquarium gravel is the best. The Estes brand is available at most LFS.

Testing equipment - You will need a test kit for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and ph.

The above is essential equipment.

Good luck!

 

[metcalfe]

cool, i guess i'll probably go with guppies, i don't wanna buy a big aquarium for now, 20 gal sounds nice

how many guppies do you think i can fit in a 20 gal tank, maximum?

i'd like to start with only 2 or 3 to get used to, and keeping their offspring, is it a good strategy?

thanx for the help

edit: you spoke of a substrate brand, i'm from portugal, dunno if LFS have it, but does a specifical brand really matter?

 

[Tiffi]

Welcome to AA!

@Jchillin: You've forgot a thermometer, or does the visitherm have one build in?

It would be really good, if you read all the stickys and articles in this forum. That will help you a lot to figure out what you need to look for.

www.bigalsonline.com has some really good prices for all the equipment. They have a really good customer service, too.

If you want to make your aquarium nice looking, you should get a nice background paper (stick it on from the outside of the back of the aquarium). And maybe you want some plastic or some real plants.

 

[Tiffi]

With guppies you should always have one male per two females. The males are so much after the females, that it can stress the women otherwise.

I would say 1male and two females or two male and four females should be fine for a start. They will get more anyway .
Maybe you want something to clean your gravel and eat algae? Then I would get some Amano Shrimp, they are very intersting to look at. You can find profiles about the guppy and the shrimp in the Fish and Plant Profile Forum.

Don't keep too many of their offspring. They reproduce as quickly as mice! Every now and then you'll probably need to bring some baby guppies back to the lfs.

 

[Jchillin]

@Jchillin: You've forgot a thermometer, or does the visitherm have one build in?

Yeah...that one slipped by.

edit: you spoke of a substrate brand, i'm from portugal, dunno if LFS have it, but does a specifical brand really matter?

No, the brand doesn't matter...but if you see this one, grab it.

 

[gheitman]

Welcome to AA metcalfe. We don't have any kind of 12-step program like the other AA but we do have a lot of people that are willing and able to help each other out. You may have different brands of equipment available to you in Portugal than what can be found elsewhere but you should certainly be able to find everything you need. Keeping fish can be as simple, or as complicated, as you want. You can use anything from a few plastic plants and other decorations or you can use live plants, driftwood and rocks. You can mix it up however you want. You could look at some of the member galleries here for ideas.

Some other things you might need to get that haven't been mentioned include a dipping net and a dechlorinator. I use Seachem's Prime to detoxify my water and have also used Jungle's Start Right with success. Depending on how you cycle your tank you may want to get a biological starter. I recommend Seachem's Stability or Marineland's BIO-Spira. I don't know of anything else that is as effective.

What will really help you is if you can find a good local fish store (aka LFS). Look for one with clean tanks, fish that aren't diseased and a good selection of fish. Don't hesitate to ask the staff questions and you can also check here to see if the answers are the same. People at local fish stores can be very helpful but you never know if the person you are talking to has a lot of experience. Ask them if they keep any tanks at home and what kind of fish they have. In my experience the good staff members are happy to talk with customers and answer questions.

Of course one of your best resources are the other members here. You'll get quick answers and they will probably be better than the ones you can get at a LFS.

 

[Zagz]

Welcome to AA! Now that you have a substantial list of everything you need for your tanks, I'd like to offer a link to an article on fishless cycling. It is a more humane way of cycling a tank IMO, but if you decide to cycle with fish be prepared to do lots of water changes. The link is for SW fish but works the same for FW fish. You can use pure ammonia instead of shrimp to start the cycle.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=15

 

[Zagz]

Oh and I forgot to mention one thing. Starting out with a 20 gal is good, be prepared that MTS is common and contagious and it's likely you will want more tanks shortly.

 

[metcalfe]

wow, thanks for all the quick help

i'm still trying to read the most i can before i buy actual stuff, i'm thinking of buying some kind of kit that includes some hardware with the tank, gonna browse some general stores (dunno the actual word, it's a big big supermarket) and see what i can find.

LFS around here are usually small generic petstores, there are a couple of them around but i don't really think the people there are very informed, most of their profit comes from dog/cat/bird food, i think fish, birds and some turtles they sell are more of a "sidekick" because it's not that much of a big town, and i guess there's not enough demand...god ol' internet scores again

i'll let you guys know of any more doubts i come up to, thanks again

 

[TomK2]

I don't have anything to add to the already good advice, so I will suggest the obvious, PATIENCE ! Going slow, and doing research, especially research into the species you want to care for, will really pay off. Another thing that really pays off is to research the equipment you think you need, and shop for them online. Online prices are usually a lot cheaper, even with the shipping. Try Bigalsonline or petsoulutions.com .

Welcome to AA and good luck!

 

[metcalfe]

ok, i've gone through most of LFS around, i've come up with some starter kits, but they're all kinda lame, they cost about more 20-30€ than the equal capacity tank and only offer some light and/or air pump, pack of fish food, overall, i think i'd be better off buying piece by piece..

i saw a quite nice one 50x30x25cm or something like that, and another one 60x30x30cm for about 30-40€.....the 60cm one fits about 14 gallons (i made my math )

i saw some heaters and filters, both about 30-40€ each (and above :? )
i think those are the biggest expenses, all the rest is about 5€ and less...


ok, for the questions now

activated carbon @ 4.99€ a piece..i'll end up using about one a month, right?

shall i buy heaters/filters for the tank's capacity or better or worse ones? the boxes come with indications for tak capacities in liters (SI rocks ), how much wattage/specs should i be looking for?

oh, choosing the tank itself, what should i be looking for? (besides obvious cracks in the glass - i didn't saw any acrylic ones btw)

thanks a lot

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Activated carbon doesn't need to be changed. Just rinse it out in used tank water when you do the weekly water changes. The manufacturer and lfs will tell you to change it bi-weekly or monthly, but it's really not necessary. I change mine out maybe once every 3 months or so but I rinse it bi-weekly in used tank water.

When purchasing a heater, aim for 5 Watts per gal. So if it's a 14 gal tank, aim for 70 Watts. If they don't have a 70 Watt heater, then chose the next highest wattage.

With filters, look for approximately 10 turnovers per hour. For a 14 gal tank, a filter that filters 140 gph is best. But this number can be slightly lower. Do not go for the next highest filter. Too much water current can cause problems.

I'm not a big fan of acrylic. While it is lighter, it is more expensive and scratches easier. Just look for a tank that does not have any visible scratches, cracks, and make sure the silicone is intact.

You will also need a gravel vac. This is one of the most important things you can buy. It is commonly overlooked. When doing water changes it will pull the fish waste from the gravel.

A test kit is a must. During the cycling phase, you will want to monitor your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels. I love the Aquarium Pharmecuticals Freshwater Master Test Kit. I'm not sure if it is available to you, but if you see it, buy one. Whatever you do, do not purchase the test strips. They are inaccurate and expensive compared to liquid reagent kits.

You'll also want a hood and light set. The hood will prevent your fish from jumping out of their tank to their death. The light strip will allow you to view your fish easily and most fish require light to maintain their healthy coloration. You won't need anything fancy schmancy. Just something with a bulb.

Welcome to AA and I hope we haven't bombarded you with too much info all at once. Ask as many questions as you have. We're here to help.

 

[TomK2]

Instead of AC you could use pourous bio-media. After a few weeks, the AC stops being so adsorbant and really just becomes surface area for bacteria to live on. Many would only use AC if they were trying to remove a specific chemical, such as a medication. AC won't hurt though, and like FF I would not change it so often because the biologic filter could then become established on it.

edit: I just noticed you live in Portugal? Do you have any local online retailers for fish stuff there?

 

[metcalfe]

hmm, cool nice infos, thanx

Fishyfanatic :

nice to know about carbon, less expense (i'm a cheap bastard )

hmm, by turnovers you mean that the filter "filters" a certain ammount of water per unit of time, that should be 10 times the capacity of the tank? that's 10 times ALL the water of the tank per hour through the filter, a given water spot goes there 240 times a day, isn't that too much? or did i missunderstood you?

about the test kits, i only saw one or two different models(about 20€), i'm not sure what kind they are, but is the inaccuracy of the strip ones bad? i'll end up having to test it on which occasions?

all the aquariums i saw were all glass with a black (plastic?) top and bottom "ring" to keep the glass in place, i didn't notice any silicone 8O , i guess the glass is pressing really tight against each other? (most of them, all i guess, came with hood , some with lamp)

TomK2:

i don't think there is any online retailer (at least that i know of) of fish stuff, but i'll search thoroughly (spell?)


what is porous bio media? i don't think i ever heard of it, what are it's advantages vs AC?
as i plan on having only a couple (3 or 4) guppies, i'm supposing that they won't mess the tank that much and AC might do the trick...dunno :|

no info is too much info, i'm an instruction booklet freak, only use stuff when i've read it all
don't be afraid of overloading me

thanks again

 

[rich311k]

Yes you want to turn over the total volume of the tank 7-10 times an hour.

You will be testing just about everyday, at the beginning. Strip tests are notoriously inaccurate.

The silicone is the white glue like stuff on the edges that holds the glass together. the plastic is the trim. Makes the tank look nice. Also helps in supporting the whole structure.

Sponges, i.e. porous media gives the good bacteria many places to grow. More surface area. You dont need the carbon at all except to remove medications etc.

 

[TomK2]

The porous ceramic noodles, or porous rocks sold by fluval, eheim and seachem here in north america have lots of surface area for beneficial nitrifying bacteria to grow on. The AC will adsorb chemicals for a while in your tank, but it is measured in weeks. The AC will not remove ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate. The only help the AC is in the nitrogen cycle is too let bacteria grow on its surface area, which will take several weeks to happen. Thus, while your AC is new enough to adsorb chemicals, it has few bacteria to break down ammonia and nitrite. Once it has enough bacteria to metabloize ammonia and nitrite, it has likely stopped adsorbing chemicals. For this reason, many have stopped using it, and just use the porous media for nitrification like in the links below:

http://www.petsolutions.com/Fluval+Bio+Max+Ceramic+Rings-I-15511455-I-C-39-C-.aspx

http://www.petsolutions.com/Eheim+Ehfisubstrat-I-20625055-I-C-39-C-.aspx

http://www.petsolutions.com/Matrix-I-10101170-I-C-39-C-.aspx

Rich is also absolutely correct. Sponges work for this too, and can be put on the intake of the filter if there is no room for them in the filter. I have used canister filters for so long I forget about sponges!

Bummer about the lack of online retailers. Here in north america we save lots of money ordering online.

 

[metcalfe]

ok, i found a company that (i think) sells stuff online or mail order, i emailed them for infos.

they have this filter that i'm guessing it uses those porous pebbles you're talking about and also has a sponge compartment (for AC i think), the page is in portuguese but it's mostly technical info and shouldn t be too much trouble to read:

http://www.aquapor.pt/pt/biospace.htm

they also have heaters, one of them conveniently @75W,
http://www.aquapor.pt/pt/aquamatic.htm


they also have aquariums and aquarium kits, which were the ones i saw at the general store, i think i'll buy them there, as i don't like mailing heavy/fragile stuff

what do you guys think about undergravel filters? is it useless as i heard? is it indispensable as i also heard?

does that filter i showed above look good?

 

[metcalfe]

edit : they have an english version of the page: http://www.aquapor.pt/biospace.htm
http://www.aquapor.pt/aquamatic.htm

for your reading convenience

 

[TomK2]

That aquapor filter has a sponge prefilter for mechanical filtration. When you clean the sponge filter, do it in old tank water, or dechlorinated water, since the sponge prefilter will also provide surface area for bacteria. After the sponge prefilter there are "bioballs", which are plastic balls with many edges to provide surface area for bacteria to grow on. Those never get replaced, only rinsed in old tank water or dechlorinated water when they look dirty or clogged up. Bioballs do the same thing as the porous media, and are commonly seen in larger sump/wet-dry filters. For small filters, the porous ceramic media provide more surface area in a small space, so they are more common in small filters, especially canister filters. But I am sure the bio-balls will work fine.

For HOB filters here in north america, the aquaclear brand is very popular:

http://www.petsolutions.com/AquaClear+70+Power+Filter-I-15510615-I-C-1018311-C-.aspx

it has a sponge on the bottom, then room above the sponge for two types of media of your choice, comes with AC and porous noodles. It his made by www.hagen.com and they have a website for france and germany, so perhaps there are models available to you in Portugal.

edit: with the english version, I can see that the aquapor filter does not mechanically filter the water before it goes trhrough the bioballs. I do not think you would want the ceramic porous media in that filter, since the pores are small and would clog up if there is no mechanical filtering before the biomeedia chamber.