Nitrates

[chipchop]

I am a new member and new to the hobby - almost 2 months. My tank is 29 gallons. As a little background, I got terrible advice starting my tank from my local store. Basically, after 48 hours of getting set up I put 7 fish in and then 2 more. When I bought the two, I also bought a bunch of books. Once I started reading, I realized how much of a mistake I made by relying on the clerk in the store. I lost 5 fish in the next 2 weeks. I also bought fish that were totally non compatible.

Now, my tank looks great and I haven't lost a fish in 1.5 months. I have 5 guppies, 2 dwarf gouramis, 7 tetras and an upside down cory. I'm totally into it - unlike any hobby I have had. Truly enjoying it.

I am worried that I just had a spike in nitrites. How high does it need to go for it to be a legit problem? I just did a water change 20% and will do another tomorrow.

So basically, should I be freaked out that nitrates just spiked?

 

[fijiwigi]

is it nitrates or nitrites or both that spiked. If you could post all of your test results that would be helpfull in diagnosing whats going on with your tank. Usually any nitrites are a sign of the tank not being completely cycled. Were the Nitrates above 20ppm? Water changes are definately a good idea to improving water quality

 

[Purrbox]

A spike in Ammonia or Nitrites indicates that 1. the aquarium is cycling or 2. it is going through a mini cycle. Mini cycles can happen for a variety of reasons. A fish dies unoticed, too many additional fish added at once, something harms the beneficial bacteria causing partial die off, etc. Determining the cause if possible, keeping an eye on parameters, and water changes to keep levels down are all good ideas.

 

[chipchop]

Looks like it is both nitrites and nitrates. Now nitrites is higher than nitrates. Nitrite is between 3.0 and 5.0 ppm and Nitrate is below 20 - I would say probably below 10. Other readings look good - Chlorine 0, Hardness between 75-150, KH 120 and PH about 7. I was going to do a water change first thing in the morning because I already did one this morning. Darn - I really thought this was cycled.

Thanks much for your responses.

 

[chipchop]

Is this an emergency?

 

[neilanh]

Based on your story I'm willing to bet you're still in your initial cycle (2 month old tank with varying bioload over the past 2 months).

Since you have fish, you're going to need to keep a close eye on those readings pretty much daily until your cycle completes. IMO, if you reach 1ppm on either of ammonia or nitrite you need to do a 50% water change. That might be a daily waterchange for a while, mind you, but it's what will keep your fish healthy.

What type of test kit are you using?

 

[chipchop]

Im using the colored strips. But I just went out and bought something more sophisticated. For NH3 and PH, I have the ones that hang in the tank.

 

[chipchop]

So if I did one this morning should I wait or do another one tonight? I read in one of the books that you shouldnt do it too often.

By the way, thanks a ton for the response. I am freaking a bit.

The fish seem very happy - no one is doing anything odd, color looks good, the are all eating fine, etc. I just gave them brine shrimp and they went nuts.

 

[neilanh]

I highly recommend you get an API freshwater master test kit. Or, at least, a reputable chemical NO2 test kit since you have what sounds like a decent NH3 kit now.

Since your NO2 is spiking, it appears you have (or at least are close to having) a sufficient amount of the bacteria to convert ammonia to nitrite. Now it's going to take time to establish a colony of nitrifying bacteria to convert that nitrite to nitrate. Before now, there was no food for those types of bacteria present, so they're kind of behind the power curve since their food source is just now here. As most will tell you, this is the lengthy portion of a cycle. And, it's not uncommon for a cycle when maintained with fish to take upwards of 6 months.

If you are reading > 3ppm nitrite, even on those test strips, I would do a 50% water change right away, regardless of the 20% you did this morning. If it were me, I might even go to 70% personally. The worry with rapid fire water changes is stress to the fish. Be very aware of the temperature of the tank when you go to replace the water, and match the fresh water as closely as you can, as this is the variable that tends to lead to the most stress during water changes.

Keeping an eye on your fish will be key. If the nitrite spike just occurred in the past day or so, if not kept in control it will start to affect your fish, as it sounds like you're aware. Poisoning of this type is typically related to burning the gills of the fish, so watch those areas closely as well.

 

[Purrbox]

Please note that those test strips are notoriously in accurate, and could be giving you very bad results. While I'd recommend doing a large water change just in case, I'd also take a sample to your LFS to see if they can verify your results. Definately pick up liquid test kits as soon as your are able to replace the test strips.

 

[chipchop]

First, you guys rock. Thanks. Last night before bed I did a massive water change.

I had already purchased an API test kit but not used it. I tested last night and the nitrites NO2 were really high - somewhere above 2.0ppm (on the color chart, between 2.0 and 5.0.) Per neilanh advice, I did about a 70% water change last night. Then I retested and the nitrites were below 1.0ppm - probably between .5 and 1. They seem much more in control. I will do another water change this afternoon. Honestly didnt sleep well because I was worried about them dying (and in addition my 13 yr old 120 lb golden retriever went out twice in the middle of the night. I mean he's 90 - when he needs to go he needs to go).

The fish seem great this morning. No one doing anything abnormal. So should they continue to spike.

 

[Purrbox]

Keep testing each day until the values for Ammonia and Nitrite go back down to 0 and stay there. Anytime either the Ammonia or Nitrite gets above 1ppm, then do another large water change. Before long your aquarium should be back to normal.

 

[chipchop]

Thanks Joy. I am sufficiently calm now.

 

[neilanh]

good, you're on a good path, just stick with it and everything will work out for the best.

 

[chipchop]

OK - today I did a 70% water change. NO2 is about 0.5 ppm. I will keep doing changes daily. Three questions:
1. When I do the changes that are that big, should I add the cycle additive?
2. How long do you think the NO2 will continue to spike/should I do changes daily?
3. If some of the fish get the red gills (which I think I am starting to see) will that be fatal or can it improve with water quality?

 

[neilanh]

1) what additive are you talking about? Don't dose anything other than a dechlorinator, I recommend Prime.
2) It's really hard to say how long it will take. There's tons of variables that determine it, and I don't think there's any way to narrow it down.
3) It will definately improve with water quality. If you keep the levels below 1ppm you hopefully won't see any real bad affects in the fish.

 

[Purrbox]

Water changes will just keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in check and won't have any negative affect on the beneficial bacteria since it attaches to the surfaces all over your aquarium and in the filter. Very little is actually in the water.

 

[chipchop]

(The additive I was talking about is called "cycle" - it a natural agent to increase cycle time recommended by name in two of my 4 books)

I just wanted to say thanks to both of you. Things look better. I am going to do another big change tonight, but the readings are more like they were last night. Thats good news because yesterday morning they had spiked overnight. Also pleased to see my nitrates go up - so I must be making some progress.

Thanks for your feedback - very useful.

 

[marchmaxima]

After using Nitrivec (same as Cycle), I wouldnt bother with it in future as I don't think it did a lot. I used it for the first 10 days, but I can't say that it made a massive improvement, however it did neutralise the ammonia back to 0 when there were small amounts. You'd be better off spending that money on a nice plant that comes with beneficial bacteria on it.

Personally, I've found that keeping the additives to a minimum is a better course of action. Cycle won't actually speed up the cycling time, despite it saying otherwise. You still need to go though the motions. There ar no short cuts.

 

[chipchop]

I keep doing a 50-70% water change daily. By the end of the next day, nitrites are back up in the 1-2 PPM range. It's frustrating. The fish are doing great, but any idea how long this will go on?