ArtesiaWells
Aquarium Advice Addict
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2012
- Messages
- 1,392
Hello AA Friends.
Since my last post in the (mainly) General Freshwater area, many things have taken place in my tank that I require some assistance on making sense of. First of all, as many of you may have read in a thread which I contributed to entitled "Do Goldfish Have a Pecking Order?" we recently introduced a young, small Red Cap Oranda to our 60 gallon, which accompanied a large Red Cap and Chocolate/Gold fantail (both which are now two and a half years old in our tank, growing since we set the tank up) in addition to a Black and Gold Moor. Immediately, the new small Red Cap began bullying the large Red Cap and Chocolate/Gold fancy, chasing them around and what appeared to be pecking at their rears. This ended up resulting in red, inflamed areas around their anal canals, the Chocolate fantail in particular looking really inflamed and bad, and what began as thinking this may had been a mating ritual between an aggressive male and two females had turned to concerns of bullying to death.
We went out and purchased, yesterday, a 10 gallon starter kit from a local Petsmart, and I netted the aggressive Red Cap from the main tank ultimately putting him in the 10 gallon starter kit. When we set the 10 gallon up, because we were in a bit of an emergency thinking he was going to kill the larger fish in our main tank, we washed all gravel and decor in warm water per the instructions (no soap of course), filled it with tap water and I immediately began Prime treatment as well as Stablility treatment to kick-start the cycle. In the meantime, we actually had the bullying Red Cap in a little vase temporarily, and then I poured him into the starter 10 gallon where he looked like he was going into shock. This was no surprise due to all the trauma he suffered, coming from the main tank, going into a flower vase and then being dumped into a new tank -- unbelievably, he is still alive today, even with being dumped into uncycled water and with all this trauma, but there are many issues now going on with his tank and our main aquarium...
First of all, the internal power filter that came with the cheap starter kit we bought was a complete piece of crap, offering no flow and not seemingly doing anything, so today I went out and bought an Aqueon QuietFlow 20 for this 10 gallon. I set it up and it's pumping water into the small tank, and I have also continued dosing the water with Seachem's Stability to continue kick-starting the cycle process because there is a fish in there -- I believe Seachem suggests dosing for a week with this stuff. At any rate, the Red Cap in this 10 gallon still appears to be in semi-shock, swimming around sometimes and even eating now and then, but he is still alive. Before I get to what's wrong in our main 60 gallon, here are the questions I have about this starter tank:
Firstly: Does this fish stand a chance of survival being that we dumped him from a vase into this tank that was not cycled at all (but has been dosed with both Prime for declorination and Stability to help with the bio kick-start)? What's even weirder is that the new tank syndrome which causes the horiffically cloudy water (which this tank had upon startup) has somehow disappeared -- just today, after setting up the Aqueon 20 power filter on the 10 gallon, I noticed that the water in this starter tank is nearly crystal clear (the kit came with a hood and light as well). Isn't that odd?
Perhaps even stranger is the fact that I am looking at the Red Cap in the 10 gallon from my seating position right now, and he's actually swimming a bit and coming to the top, acting kind of healthy -- earlier today he didn't look that great, sitting at the bottom motionless even when I tapped on the glass, but since installing the Aqueon filter (probably just a coincidence) he has begun swimming more and acting a bit different...
So, my questions about this emergency 10 gallon we set up are: 1) Should I expect this fish to survive these conditions? 2) Should I continue to dose this tank each day with Stability? Is this helping the cycle process? 3) Was the Aqueon QuietFlow 20 the right filter purchase for this tank? Should this be enough filtration on a 10 gallon with just one goldfish in there as of now?
This brings me to what is happening in our main 60 gallon, which houses a larger Red Cap Oranda, a Chocolate/Gold fantail and a Black/Gold Moor. The repeated attacks by the bullying Red Cap who is now in the 10 gallon upon both the larger Red Cap and Chocolate fantail lead to horrendous, red, open sores on their behinds -- I mean really bad looking. Additionally, due to the bullying characteristics of the smaller Red Cap, the Chocolate fantail appears to have suffered bruises on the sides of his body that are clearly evident when you look for them...they almost appear as black-and-blue marks on the scales. Because of this, I immediately started an API Aquarium Salt bath in the tank as a relief tonic, but I didn't add the dose as stated on the box -- according to API, something like 16 tablespoons of salt should be added to a 60 gallon tank, and I just didn't want to stand there and spoon out 16 tablespoons...and so I merely just added a few tablespoons which quickly fell to the gravel and began releasing into the water column. Additionally, we went out and bought API's Melafix (Melafix® - API) which is supposed to treat open sores, wounds, etc. which we thought was perfect for this problem...and immediately started dosing the six teaspoons for our 60 gallons. The directions claim we should do this for 7 days and then do a 25% water change, and then add more if the symptoms haven't cleared up...they also said that activated carbon should be removed from the filter if possible. Here are my dilemmas with THIS tank now:
First of all, since adding the API salt, the water in the 60 gallon has gotten weird -- where it was once crystal clear from a recent addition of Purigen packs, suddenly there is a fizzy, alka seltzer-like foaming coming from my bubble bars and the water itself in the tank looks club-soda-like and a bit murky...is this normal for salt to do this to fresh water? It looks like the tank is filled with colorless soda...
Additionally, did we do the right thing with regard to the API medication for the fish's wounds? We're on our second day of dosing with this stuff, but is it possible this will actually heal their red sores and make them feel better since the smaller Red Cap attacked them? I don't really like the behavior of the Chocolate fantail since starting the medicine and salt, as he's not eating that much and is kind of just floating and breathing, not really interested in swimming which is very uncharateristic of him -- especially the eating. Is it remotely possible the API stuff is working on him and soothing the wound on his rear end? Or is it that the medicine is making him sicker than he is now, combined with the salt in the tank?
Should I continue dosing with the API medicine for the full 7 days as the instructions say, and then do the 25% water change at that time? And then what about the filter media in my two HOB's on this tank now -- the Aqueon QuietFlow 55 has two carbon cartridges (which I didn't remove before dosing with the medicine) and a 100ml pack of Purigen in it, while the AquaClear 110 (the other HOB we're running) has the sponge, two 100ml packs of Purigen and the BioMax rings in its media basket. What should I do with all these pieces of media while the medicine is treating the water/fish? Should I wait the week before I actually rinse them or change them -- should the Aqueon's cartridges at least be changed out at the end of the medicine dosing? And what about the Purigen -- do these need to be tossed out and replaced now due to the fact that medicine got inside the packs? The packs are only a week or so old...
That's all I can think of for now with regard to all this; if anyone could assist with these problems and questions, it would be greatly appreciated because we don't want to lose any of these fish -- if we lost the aggressive Oranda who is now in the 10 gallon starter tank it would be easier than losing the two larger fancies we basically raised since they were small in our main tank, yet we really don't want any deaths...
Since my last post in the (mainly) General Freshwater area, many things have taken place in my tank that I require some assistance on making sense of. First of all, as many of you may have read in a thread which I contributed to entitled "Do Goldfish Have a Pecking Order?" we recently introduced a young, small Red Cap Oranda to our 60 gallon, which accompanied a large Red Cap and Chocolate/Gold fantail (both which are now two and a half years old in our tank, growing since we set the tank up) in addition to a Black and Gold Moor. Immediately, the new small Red Cap began bullying the large Red Cap and Chocolate/Gold fancy, chasing them around and what appeared to be pecking at their rears. This ended up resulting in red, inflamed areas around their anal canals, the Chocolate fantail in particular looking really inflamed and bad, and what began as thinking this may had been a mating ritual between an aggressive male and two females had turned to concerns of bullying to death.
We went out and purchased, yesterday, a 10 gallon starter kit from a local Petsmart, and I netted the aggressive Red Cap from the main tank ultimately putting him in the 10 gallon starter kit. When we set the 10 gallon up, because we were in a bit of an emergency thinking he was going to kill the larger fish in our main tank, we washed all gravel and decor in warm water per the instructions (no soap of course), filled it with tap water and I immediately began Prime treatment as well as Stablility treatment to kick-start the cycle. In the meantime, we actually had the bullying Red Cap in a little vase temporarily, and then I poured him into the starter 10 gallon where he looked like he was going into shock. This was no surprise due to all the trauma he suffered, coming from the main tank, going into a flower vase and then being dumped into a new tank -- unbelievably, he is still alive today, even with being dumped into uncycled water and with all this trauma, but there are many issues now going on with his tank and our main aquarium...
First of all, the internal power filter that came with the cheap starter kit we bought was a complete piece of crap, offering no flow and not seemingly doing anything, so today I went out and bought an Aqueon QuietFlow 20 for this 10 gallon. I set it up and it's pumping water into the small tank, and I have also continued dosing the water with Seachem's Stability to continue kick-starting the cycle process because there is a fish in there -- I believe Seachem suggests dosing for a week with this stuff. At any rate, the Red Cap in this 10 gallon still appears to be in semi-shock, swimming around sometimes and even eating now and then, but he is still alive. Before I get to what's wrong in our main 60 gallon, here are the questions I have about this starter tank:
Firstly: Does this fish stand a chance of survival being that we dumped him from a vase into this tank that was not cycled at all (but has been dosed with both Prime for declorination and Stability to help with the bio kick-start)? What's even weirder is that the new tank syndrome which causes the horiffically cloudy water (which this tank had upon startup) has somehow disappeared -- just today, after setting up the Aqueon 20 power filter on the 10 gallon, I noticed that the water in this starter tank is nearly crystal clear (the kit came with a hood and light as well). Isn't that odd?
Perhaps even stranger is the fact that I am looking at the Red Cap in the 10 gallon from my seating position right now, and he's actually swimming a bit and coming to the top, acting kind of healthy -- earlier today he didn't look that great, sitting at the bottom motionless even when I tapped on the glass, but since installing the Aqueon filter (probably just a coincidence) he has begun swimming more and acting a bit different...
So, my questions about this emergency 10 gallon we set up are: 1) Should I expect this fish to survive these conditions? 2) Should I continue to dose this tank each day with Stability? Is this helping the cycle process? 3) Was the Aqueon QuietFlow 20 the right filter purchase for this tank? Should this be enough filtration on a 10 gallon with just one goldfish in there as of now?
This brings me to what is happening in our main 60 gallon, which houses a larger Red Cap Oranda, a Chocolate/Gold fantail and a Black/Gold Moor. The repeated attacks by the bullying Red Cap who is now in the 10 gallon upon both the larger Red Cap and Chocolate fantail lead to horrendous, red, open sores on their behinds -- I mean really bad looking. Additionally, due to the bullying characteristics of the smaller Red Cap, the Chocolate fantail appears to have suffered bruises on the sides of his body that are clearly evident when you look for them...they almost appear as black-and-blue marks on the scales. Because of this, I immediately started an API Aquarium Salt bath in the tank as a relief tonic, but I didn't add the dose as stated on the box -- according to API, something like 16 tablespoons of salt should be added to a 60 gallon tank, and I just didn't want to stand there and spoon out 16 tablespoons...and so I merely just added a few tablespoons which quickly fell to the gravel and began releasing into the water column. Additionally, we went out and bought API's Melafix (Melafix® - API) which is supposed to treat open sores, wounds, etc. which we thought was perfect for this problem...and immediately started dosing the six teaspoons for our 60 gallons. The directions claim we should do this for 7 days and then do a 25% water change, and then add more if the symptoms haven't cleared up...they also said that activated carbon should be removed from the filter if possible. Here are my dilemmas with THIS tank now:
First of all, since adding the API salt, the water in the 60 gallon has gotten weird -- where it was once crystal clear from a recent addition of Purigen packs, suddenly there is a fizzy, alka seltzer-like foaming coming from my bubble bars and the water itself in the tank looks club-soda-like and a bit murky...is this normal for salt to do this to fresh water? It looks like the tank is filled with colorless soda...
Additionally, did we do the right thing with regard to the API medication for the fish's wounds? We're on our second day of dosing with this stuff, but is it possible this will actually heal their red sores and make them feel better since the smaller Red Cap attacked them? I don't really like the behavior of the Chocolate fantail since starting the medicine and salt, as he's not eating that much and is kind of just floating and breathing, not really interested in swimming which is very uncharateristic of him -- especially the eating. Is it remotely possible the API stuff is working on him and soothing the wound on his rear end? Or is it that the medicine is making him sicker than he is now, combined with the salt in the tank?
Should I continue dosing with the API medicine for the full 7 days as the instructions say, and then do the 25% water change at that time? And then what about the filter media in my two HOB's on this tank now -- the Aqueon QuietFlow 55 has two carbon cartridges (which I didn't remove before dosing with the medicine) and a 100ml pack of Purigen in it, while the AquaClear 110 (the other HOB we're running) has the sponge, two 100ml packs of Purigen and the BioMax rings in its media basket. What should I do with all these pieces of media while the medicine is treating the water/fish? Should I wait the week before I actually rinse them or change them -- should the Aqueon's cartridges at least be changed out at the end of the medicine dosing? And what about the Purigen -- do these need to be tossed out and replaced now due to the fact that medicine got inside the packs? The packs are only a week or so old...
That's all I can think of for now with regard to all this; if anyone could assist with these problems and questions, it would be greatly appreciated because we don't want to lose any of these fish -- if we lost the aggressive Oranda who is now in the 10 gallon starter tank it would be easier than losing the two larger fancies we basically raised since they were small in our main tank, yet we really don't want any deaths...