Oscar bullying.

[akagochi]

I added a new albino tiger Oscar to the 125 today and the other existing albino is really bullying the new one. The new one will not defend himself even though he is bigger. He just lays there and let's the other albino bump him. He is also getting some scales yanked off. It's been about an hour. The aggressor will swim away and then come back to repeat the behavior. Is this part of establishing dominance or more than that? When should I worry?

Thanks......

125, eheim, fluval, rena
Chocolate, Severum, geo, parrot, 2 albino's

 

[5x5]

I added a new albino tiger Oscar to the 125 today and the other existing albino is really bullying the new one. The new one will not defend himself even though he is bigger. He just lays there and let's the other albino bump him. He is also getting some scales yanked off. It's been about an hour. The aggressor will swim away and then come back to repeat the behavior. Is this part of establishing dominance or more than that? When should I worry?

Thanks......

125, eheim, fluval, rena
Chocolate, Severum, geo, parrot, 2 albino's

This doesn't surprise me. The existing fish in the tank are defending pre-established territory and newly-added oscars are often very stressed and helpless. If it continues beyond 24 hours and/or if the attacks escalate and start looking serious, only then would I remove the fish or add a divider.

Some occasional flying scales will happen when you add a new fish to an established tank.

 

[akagochi]

This doesn't surprise me. The existing fish in the tank are defending pre-established territory and newly-added oscars are often very stressed and helpless. If it continues beyond 24 hours and/or if the attacks escalate and start looking serious, only then would I remove the fish or add a divider.

Some occasional flying scales will happen when you add a new fish to an established tank.

I hear ya. So here's what I did. I set up a separate tank and put the aggressor in it, then I totally rearranged the big tank with the new albino in it. I'm hoping that totally rearranging the tank without the other fish in it will give the new one a chance to establish himself. Tonight or tomorrow I will put the aggressor back in and hope things will be different. Otherwise I got nothing, and will return one to the store.

 

[Oscar98]

I hear ya. So here's what I did. I set up a separate tank and put the aggressor in it, then I totally rearranged the big tank with the new albino in it. I'm hoping that totally rearranging the tank without the other fish in it will give the new one a chance to establish himself. Tonight or tomorrow I will put the aggressor back in and hope things will be different. Otherwise I got nothing, and will return one to the store.

Put the aggressor back in when the new oscar is swimming around freely and doesnt look stressed or anything.

 

[CalebZachary]

I think your tank might be a little overstocked with the extra albino.

 

[Oscar98]

I think your tank might be a little overstocked with the extra albino.

No a 125 gallon tank is not overstocked with two oscars in it.

 

[5x5]

I think your tank might be a little overstocked with the extra albino.

Why do you say that?

 

[CalebZachary]

There is more than two albinos.

Chocolate, Severum, geo, parrot, 2 albino's is what they said. That is overstocked. The 125 is big enough for the two oscars, amybe the severum too. But that's it.

 

[Oscar98]

There is more than two albinos.

Chocolate, Severum, geo, parrot, 2 albino's is what they said. That is overstocked. The 125 is big enough for the two oscars, amybe the severum too. But that's it.

I really dont think thats overstocked. Maybe pushing it. I would drop the parrot. Then it would be an all SA tank. I think it would be fine

 

[CalebZachary]

Oscars- at least 12"
Chocolate- at least 6"
Geo- 10-12"
BP- 6-9"
Severum- 8"

All of those in a 125 is overdoing it i'd say.

 

[Oscar98]

Oscars- at least 12"
Chocolate- at least 6"
Geo- 10-12"
BP- 6-9"
Severum- 8"

All of those in a 125 is overdoing it i'd say.

Depends on what geo it is. Not a lot of geos reach 12"

 

[HUKIT]

Oscars- at least 12"
Chocolate- at least 6"
Geo- 10-12"
BP- 6-9"
Severum- 8"

All of those in a 125 is overdoing it i'd say.

I agree.

 

[5x5]

Oscars- at least 12"
Chocolate- at least 6"
Geo- 10-12"
BP- 6-9"
Severum- 8"

All of those in a 125 is overdoing it i'd say.

An "overstocked" tank is a point in time condition and you can't call a tank overstocked based on the current inhabitants without knowing how large they currently are. It's not fair to assume that none of the fish will ever be rehomed before they reach full size.

The numbers you provided are full adult size numbers and they are mostly wrong in my opinion. You are not accounting for different species nor male vs female.

 

[Oscar98]

An "overstocked" tank is a point in time condition and you can't call a tank overstocked based on the current inhabitants without knowing how large they currently are. It's not fair to assume that none of the fish will ever be rehomed before they reach full size.

The numbers you provided are full adult size numbers and they are mostly wrong in my opinion. You are not accounting for different species nor male vs female.

X2 no a lot of geos reach 12" i dont think. There are some but not a lot.
You can never tell with parrots unless its a real parrot. But if its a hybrid it could be 12" it could be 5".

 

[HUKIT]

Even though his numbers are slightly off there is still 3 fish growing over 12" and a couple more at 8-9" that's the definition of overstocked. So why is everyone focusing on the geos size, but heck what do I know?

 

[5x5]

Even though his numbers are slightly off there is still 3 fish growing over 12" and a couple more at 8-9" that's the definition of overstocked. So why is everyone focusing on the geos size, but heck what do I know?

I think these fish are mostly juvies right now (if I remember this tank correctly). There is no question this tank needs a stock adjustment over time, but my point is that it can't be called overstocked....until it's overstocked. Overstocked in the sense of an existing case of unmanageable nitrates or aggression, not potential.

I agree the geos aren't very material.

 

[CalebZachary]

Even if they are mostly juvies now, this is probably one of the reasons the albino attacked the other. There isn't enough room to claim territories for all of the fish in the current tank. The measurements I gave are just rough estimates. I don't see the big deal. Even if the two oscars only got to 12" and the rest averaged 6", that's still overstocked. Having that many tank inhabitants, and saying it's okay for now is still pushing it. When is it okay until? One of the fish goes on a killing rampage and eliminates the rest of the stock?

I have a 110 gallon tank with two oscars in it. Should I add in a few more fish, just because they are juvies? or is it not right to account for their full size and consider that when purchasing these fish for the tank.

 

[CalebZachary]

An "overstocked" tank is a point in time condition and you can't call a tank overstocked based on the current inhabitants without knowing how large they currently are. It's not fair to assume that none of the fish will ever be rehomed before they reach full size.

The numbers you provided are full adult size numbers and they are mostly wrong in my opinion. You are not accounting for different species nor male vs female.

Mostly wrong you say? Mostly would imply more than half of what i said was wrong.

Two Oscars typically always reach 12". Severums can get up to 8-9". Chocolate at 6" is pretty spot on. Geo maybe was a reach, but depends on which one.

 

[5x5]

Mostly wrong you say? Mostly would imply more than half of what i said was wrong.

Two Oscars typically always reach 12". Severums can get up to 8-9". Chocolate at 6" is pretty spot on. Geo maybe was a reach, but depends on which one.

Perhaps i'm being overly critical here and it's not particularly relevant anyhow, but chocolates grow 10 - 12". I have a 7" that's only a year old.

More importantly, you're giving sizes for common names, which in some cases are genus's and not species, which is a very inaccurate.

 

[5x5]

Even if they are mostly juvies now, this is probably one of the reasons the albino attacked the other. There isn't enough room to claim territories for all of the fish in the current tank. The measurements I gave are just rough estimates. I don't see the big deal. Even if the two oscars only got to 12" and the rest averaged 6", that's still overstocked. Having that many tank inhabitants, and saying it's okay for now is still pushing it. When is it okay until? One of the fish goes on a killing rampage and eliminates the rest of the stock?

I have a 110 gallon tank with two oscars in it. Should I add in a few more fish, just because they are juvies? or is it not right to account for their full size and consider that when purchasing these fish for the tank.

My point is this. The op provided very little information about current sizes and you immediately jumped to the overstocked conclusion. For argument sake, say every fish in his tank is 1/2" right now....saying the aggression is caused by the tank being overstocked sounds rather foolish.

No one disagrees that this tank stock needs to be adjusted for future success, but you are coming to conclusions that cannot be reached without more information.

Regarding your strange example. The answer is I don't know if you should add more fish because you haven't provided any information about the size of your oscars or your willingness to shuffle fish around later. Sound familiar?

Lastly, this concept of accounting for the full size when stocking is only valid if the owner is unwilling or unable to rehome the fish at the appropriate time. Based on your theory, it is wrong for me to purchase 6 fish for a 40 breeder and try to get a breeding pair (common practice), because I am not accounting for the full size - even though they will never all be stocked full size in that tank.

For the record, I may not disagree with your advice in the end when the op provides more information, but you are making lots of assumptions.