P,ed off and confused

[senorkevin]

I have been doing 50% WC everyday for 3 days with a good gravel vacuum. It's getting to that stage where I have accepted that nearly all will die. I just want to get rid of the ich and start again

 

[ArtistGardener]

Turn down the heat and you might save your remaining stock! If you lose all your fish, you'll still have to wait weeks before you can start over. Rushing their demise with such high heat isn't going to help you with that.

 

[senorkevin]

Everyone says that I need the heat. Anyway I least I can get the tank cycled and done properly

 

[ArtistGardener]

You do not NEED the heat. Heat is used to speed up the life cycle of the ich, or to increase the production of beneficial bacteria while cycling a tank--but this isn't a typical case. You are trying to do too many things at once and the health of your stock should be your primary concern!!!! You can't make someone better by killing them with treatments. Back off of the heat and meds for a bit---see what happens.

 

[Caliban07]

You do not NEED the heat. Heat is used to speed up the life cycle of the ich, or to increase the production of beneficial bacteria while cycling a tank--but this isn't a typical case. You are trying to do too many things at once and the health of your stock should be your primary concern!!!! You can't make someone better by killing them with treatments. Back off of the heat and meds for a bit---see what happens.

Ok let's just calm down for a second here. Artist Gardner, I agree with what you say but it's very easy to get in to this kind of situation where you think you are doing what's best for your fish.

You try everything you have heard and when it doesn't seem to be working you do something else and then something else. Before you know it you can't remember what you have done or tried and it can be just as stressful for the owner as it is for the fish.

Kevin. Turn down heater for now and stop dosing medications. These are just adding to the stress off the fish which opens them up to all kinds of disease. Chewed tail could be fin rot for example due to poor water quality.

Right now you need to finish the cycle at a stress free temperature. Add carbon to remove meds or do a couple of water changes.

You also need to buy a proper liquid test kit with a chart. High nitrites will also suffocate fish making it seem like it's because of the parasite but truth be known. None of it is helping.

Get your water pristine and finish your cycle. We can take it from there.

 

[senorkevin]

The med is for only 3 days and it says to turn the heat up. My three days of meds has passed so no more meds. If I turn the heat down will the ich just die buy itself?

 

[ArtistGardener]

Sorry if my post seemed harsh, but I think senorkevin thinks, like many people, that the ich is the biggest problem he has right now--and it isn't. Ich rarely kills fish off so quickly and in masses-often the cure is worse than the disease. Sometimes the message has to made more direct to be powerful enough to make someone change course (speaking from my own mistakes and great help I got here from the most experienced aquarists).

 

[Berylla]

The med is for only 3 days and it says to turn the heat up. My three days of meds has passed so no more meds. If I turn the heat down will the ich just die buy itself?

Ich treatments as with other parasite treatments need to be performed over a course of a couple of weeks since there are the eggs to deal with when they hatch.

Having the heat at 82 will not kill tetras. I keep a discus tank at 82, 24/7 and my tetras do just fine.

I agree - get rid of the meds, change you water out DAILY since your tank is still cycling.

Once your cycle is complete, treat the ich again, but this time use the heat only treatment which is raising temperature to 86 and add salt of 1 tbs/5 gallons. You perform daily small water changes with a vacuum of the substrate (to pick up tomites) for the next two weeks.

 

[senorkevin]

I was just about to ask about that. When I first asked, everyone said turn up the heat and some said add salt. If I turn the heat down will the ich just die in time? So ich isn't really that bad?

 

[senorkevin]

I have snails, plecos catfish. Isn't the salt bad for those?

 

[Berylla]

I have snails, plecos catfish. Isn't the salt bad for those?

If you have the above in your tank do no NOT use salt. JUST HEAT.

If you fish are stressed (which they are since the tank is not cycled), fish often succumb to infections like ich. If you don't kill them off, they will always be in your tank waiting for your fish to get stressed again.

 

[Caliban07]

I have snails, plecos catfish. Isn't the salt bad for those?

I wouldn't add salt at all. Ich is the most common and easy to treat diseases. Raising the heat in most causes is enough. But the temp up at 30 with everything else going on isn't going to help right now.

Apparently salt is bad for scaleless fish and isn't good for plants although some people on here appear to have had no problems dosing salt with plants.

 

[senorkevin]

Ok. So I should:
Turn down the heat
50% WC everyday
Wait for cycle to finish
Turn the heat back up for a week
?

 

[Caliban07]

Sorry if my post seemed harsh, but I think senorkevin thinks, like many people, that the ich is the biggest problem he has right now--and it isn't. Ich rarely kills fish off so quickly and in masses-often the cure is worse than the disease. Sometimes the message has to made more direct to be powerful enough to make someone change course (speaking from my own mistakes and great help I got here from the most experienced aquarists).

This is true but the op DOES have concerns over his fish, otherwise he would not be going through all these possible remedies. Watching your fish die and not know why is quite distressing. I agree that the op needs to heed our advice but !!! Do not help.

 

[ArtistGardener]

I have been doing 50% WC everyday for 3 days with a good gravel vacuum. It's getting to that stage where I have accepted that nearly all will die. I just want to get rid of the ich and start again

My response, Caliban, was to this comment. I see someone ready to throw in the towel and sacrifice their stock when it probably isn't necessary. The trouble with the written word is that we can't judge tone of voice. My tone was of urgency and caring--not harshness. Unfortunately, apparently you read it differently.

Senorkevin, as for killing off the dormant stages of the ich; it is much more important to stabilize that tank and its contents at this point.

 

[senorkevin]

That's what I want to do! I don't want all my fish to die. If that was the case I would flush them all down the toilet and throw my tank away!
All I want is a healthy tank with healthy fish. So I should follow the 4 steps I posted before?
Turn down heat
WC 50% daily
Wait for cycle to finish
Turn heat back up to treat ich

 

[senorkevin]

Also I was only following the advice given at the time which was:
Turn up heat
Add salt

 

[Caliban07]

That's what I want to do! I don't want all my fish to die. If that was the case I would flush them all down the toilet and throw my tank away!
All I want is a healthy tank with healthy fish. So I should follow the 4 steps I posted before?
Turn down heat
WC 50% daily
Wait for cycle to finish
Turn heat back up to treat ich

It's ok Kevin I have been in and felt the exact same as you. It can be really depressing. I can't even euthanise a fish without hope that it might just pull through and fortunately I managed to battle the disease which was columnaris. Much more dangerous than ich in my opinion.

As precaution in future I would recommend setting up a small quarantine tank and placing new arrivals in there for 3-4 weeks.

Do as suggested and good luck.

 

[ArtistGardener]

Ditto to Caliban's words and advice. Everyone goes thru some catastrophe at some point in this hobby. I hope it all works out. Let us know what stock is left in the tank in a few days and how they look.

 

[Caliban07]

My response, Caliban, was to this comment. I see someone ready to throw in the towel and sacrifice their stock when it probably isn't necessary. The trouble with the written word is that we can't judge tone of voice. My tone was of urgency and caring--not harshness. Unfortunately, apparently you read it differently.

Senorkevin, as for killing off the dormant stages of the ich; it is much more important to stabilize that tank and its contents at this point.

I didn't read the comment as harsh. I've read post by you before and you use sense and logic in your advice.

I was just trying to settle things down a little as I understand that the issue can be resolved by laying down some thought through steps and a plan and not panicking the op who clearly seemed to think ich was the be all and end all.

That's all