Planaria

[Autumnsky]

Planaria has been killing my little shrimp (and in my blue shrimp tank to boot) and baby red Ramshorns in my Edge tank, NOT happy.

I am looking for others experiences for killing off these buggers but NOT killing shrimp and snails. Previous member here did this but I can't reach him.

Already am sucking out visible ones and reduced feeding.

This has been going on for almost two weeks so I am doing one more thorough substrate cleaning despite the planted tank. But am looking for options of dosing dewormer.

QUESTIONS from others previous experiences...

6.6G Edge

How long do you leave the dose(s) in for?

# Days of treatments, and frequency of doses?

How much pwc do you do during treatment .

How many days after treatment and how many pwc do you do after treatment to get out the meds.

Thank you for any help.

 

[jondamon]

Look for FENBENDAZOLE it's a de-wormer for cats and dogs.

Google Fenbendazole Planaria.

This should give you the results you're looking for.

In a 50g tank I used half a tablet. However I used it during my fishless cycle.

I believe it is safe for inverts though.


Jon.

 

[jondamon]

Here is a source for the Fenbendazole treatment.

Source is planet invert.

http://www.planetinverts.com/killing_planaria_and_hydra.html

Jon

 

[SolvingNormal]

I'll second the fenbendazole treatment. In my personal experience, however, it was easier to use liquid fenbendazole. Safe-Guard makes a 10% suspension (100 mg/ml) for goats. The Panacur granules are not water-soluble, and very difficult to get to dissolve in a suspension - as is noted by one of the reviewers in the link posted to Planet Inverts. After experiencing the same problem (and the issue of trying to accurately dose based on the granules - which are 22.2% - or 222 mg/g), I found it much easier to use something already in a liquid form.

You can do about 0.25cc (0.25ml) per 10 gallons of the liquid. Be aware, there are reports that it will kill nerites. (GWAPA • View topic - Dog Dewormer (fenbendazole) on planaria - Reintroduce Nerite)

 

[Autumnsky]

Thank you Normal, good info!

 

[Autumnsky]

Goat Dewormer

Liquid Fenbendazole is available for deworming goats $18. 100mg/ml safe-guard brand. Bought at livestock/vet supply store.

Bought it, now have to take the best calculations for my tank size and see if I can get a tiny enough syringe for dosing, or multiply my volume of med with tank water to get enough quantity for dosing.

I think I have a common dosing per gallon amount but I am going to scan over the info to be as sure as possible.

Tired of turkey basting these guys out of the shrimp tank one to two times a day! Been feeding only half and skipping every 3-4th day but still have some.

Still looking for anyone with personal experience keeping shrimp and snails healthy at the same time!

 

[SolvingNormal]

I had no issues with ramshorn snails and various age shrimp using 0.25cc of 10% fenbendazole (goat formulation) per 10 gallons. I performed a 50% water change and repeated the treatment after three days, then a water change again three days later. No further planaria seen.

I used a 1cc syringe (no needle) to easily and precisely measure the medication. I mixed it into about a cup of tank water (it is heavier than water so this helps keep it from sinking in the tank and then slowly dispersing) then poured it all in to help it best disperse. It readily mixed with the water this way.

 

[SolvingNormal]

Forgot to mention... Depending on how heavy your infestation is and your tank size, you may need to be alert (test for) for an ammonia spike as the planaria die off. I didn't feed at all during treatment (to avoid any further ammonia contributions, and reduce potential of overfeeding leading to more planaria), but I have a well planted tank and the shrimp frequently graze on the biofilms on the plants for food. This may not be an option for everyone. Before the second treatment I tried to stir up the substrate while gravel vacuuming to get any live planaria back into contact with the water column.

At the end of treatment after the last water treatment I ran carbon for a few days (generally I don't run any chemical filtration) to remove any traces. It didn't seem to affect the bacterial filter at all.

I keep RCS and neocardina sp. green (and ramshorns) on a sand substrate with plants.

I also cut my feeding back to weekly, and haven't noticed any issues. They seem fine grazing on plants and the bit of algae on the glass or detritus on sponge filter the rest of the time.

As a side note it didn't affect the amphopods (seed shrimp) in the tank, but they don't seem to affect anything negatively, and I'm convinced the Otos are eating them as delucious snacks (or the population decline is an odd coincidence to the Oto introduction).

The water will be a bit milky/cloudy during treatment.

PS - Sorry for back-to-back posts

 

[Autumnsky]

I had no issues with ramshorn snails and various age shrimp using 0.25cc of 10% fenbendazole (goat formulation) per 10 gallons. I performed a 50% water change and repeated the treatment after three days, then a water change again three days later. No further planaria seen.

After initially putting this in you said you did a water change...how long after the first treatment did you pwc, just to make sure I am understanding correctly wait three days?

Did you have baby snails, any negative effects?

 

[SolvingNormal]

The water change was after three days right before the second dose. It (the timeline) was based on recommendations I found online... But now I can't find the link. :/ I had snail eggs and baby snails. I didn't see an effect on the babies. In terms of eggs, honestly I didn't really pay attention since they seemed to just lay them willy nilly. I have also had pond snails and tadpole snails in a tank treated for planaria and didn't have snail losses. All were adults. No nerite snail experience though.

 

[SolvingNormal]

Just curious if you've tried a treatment yet and, if so, how it's going.

 

[Autumnsky]

Not yet, I have a 6.6 Edge Shrimp and snails and a 2.5 Aqueon Betta Tank with red Rams horns which need treatment.

Have had extra work schedule and a overheating/ broken car and a couple other inconveniences. Almost no extra time to focus on the Planaria. Friday probably will be the day though.

I found articles about the treatment and the .25cc seemed what I read, I have a nursing school med certified friend who can help me calculate the doses. I am a bad math calculator!

Really appreciate the help. I know I lost about half of my natural and blue shrimp, the smaller shrimplets are gone.

I suck up the Planaria I see roving around. Stopped feeding the shrimp this week. Still have dropped some Micro pellets for the Chilis, but very few.

After the treatment, I am going to really give the sand a good rinsing. The Edge shape has some problems, but it is pretty to look at.

 

[SolvingNormal]

Not yet, I have a 6.6 Edge Shrimp and snails and a 2.5 Aqueon Betta Tank with red Rams horns which need treatment.

I found articles about the treatment and the .25cc seemed what I read, I have a nursing school med certified friend who can help me calculate the doses. I am a bad math calculator!

Really appreciate the help. I know I lost about half of my natural and blue shrimp, the smaller shrimplets are gone.

I suck up the Planaria I see roving around. Stopped feeding the shrimp this week. Still have dropped some Micro pellets for the Chilis, but very few.

The dose for your 6.6 gallon is 0.15cc of the 10% Safe-Guard solution you have ([0.25/10]*6.6). The dose for your 2.5 gallon is 0.0625cc (we'll call it 0.06cc). Since both of those are starting to become pretty small numbers, and the liquid fenbendazole mixes really easily in tank water, your best bet is probably to create a dilution yourself. Take 9 parts tank water and 1 part fenbendazole (e.g., 9cc tank water and 1cc fenbendazole) and stir well. Now, instead of 100mg fenbendazole per cc, you have 10mg fenbendazole per cc, or a 1% solution. You can now, from this solution, dose your tanks at 1.5cc for the 6.6 gallon tank and 0.63cc for the 2.5 gallon tank.

[Note 1cc=1ml]

 

[Autumnsky]

Did it!

Thank you, really sooooo much!

Now we'll see how it goes.

Stirred up the sand and I see more Planaria than before I stirred it. They are moving around like normal atm. Shrimp are all out picking the sand for goodies, hungry!

 

[Autumnsky]

? & Day after results

Could one accidently transfer the Planaria into another tank by netting fish? I am thinking of treating my other tanks to be sure to get rid of them. I will eventually transfer adults to my bigger community tank so I don't want the little buggers in there killing any babies I might get.

Results at this time...

At midnight, 12 hours after the treatment I didn't see any Planaria movement.

The filter was left running to kill anything in there as well, was my thinking...

The water initially was cloudy but this morning it is clear as can be, no Planaria visible, the filter has had the same media in it since February so I don't think the carbon plays much of a part at this point so long after. Only good /effective for a week or two.

Stirred up the sand twice to see if I could flush any out, and still see none.

There are shrimp frolicking and snails gliding all over the scape so at this point, so far so good.

Solving Normal, God bless you for your much needed help. Thank you so much. I wish I could have done this immediately and maybe not have lost almost all the blue coloration of shrimp little ones. I still have at least one in there, and some natural ones and a sneaky red shrimp that seems very happy. There are a few blues in the big Cherry Red tank I will see if I can scoop out when this is cleared up.

Normal, can you calculate how much, using the tank water dilution of 10 how much for 30 gal and a 35 gal and a 16 gal? Thank you, thank you, thank you. I appreciate your gift of calculations!

 

[SolvingNormal]

Could one accidently transfer the Planaria into another tank by netting fish? I am thinking of treating my other tanks to be sure to get rid of them. I will eventually transfer adults to my bigger community tank so I don't want the little buggers in there killing any babies I might get.

I don't know enough to answer this question. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable about such things can answer.

Results it this time...

At midnight, 12 hours after the treatment I didn't see any Planaria movement.

The filter was left running to kill anything in there as well, was my thinking...

The water initially was cloudy but this morning it is clear as can be, no Planaria visible, the filter has had the same media in it since February so I don't think the carbon plays much of a part at this point so long after. Anyone correct me if I am wrong.

Stirred up the sand twice to see if I could flush any out, and still see none.

There are shrimp frolicking and snails gliding all over the scape so at this point, so far so good.

Glad to hear all is well! I had the same progression with cloudiness then clearing up, and also left the filter alone during treatment.

Normal, can you calculate how much, using the tank water dilution of 10 how much for 30 gal and a 35 gal and a 16 gal? Thank you, thank you, thank you. I appreciate your gift of calculations!

If you're using the 1% solution (1 part 10% Safe-Guard wormer, 9 parts tank water) so that you have a solution with 10mg fenbendazole/cc, you can use the following formula:

0.25*v
​

where v is the volume (in gallons) of the tank you're going to be treating. Thus, for your 16 gallon tank, 0.25*16=4, so you would use 4cc of the 1% (10mg/cc) diluted solution.

If you wanted to use the straight wormer (100mg/cc), use the formula

0.025*v
​

again, where v is the volume of the tank to be treated. For a larger tank, like your 30 gallon, this may be more practical. In this case, 0.025*30=0.75, so you would administer 0.75cc of the straight 10% Safe-Guard (100mg/cc) solution. I still recommend taking a bit of tank water out first to mix the 0.75cc dose up in, then pouring it all back into the tank, just so that it disperses more evenly, but you don't have to.

Anyways, here are the numbers:

If using a 1% (10mg fenbendazole/cc) solution (using it diluted):
16g: 4.0cc
30g: 7.5cc
35g: 8.75cc

If using a 10% (100mg fenbendazole/cc) solution (dosing it straight):
16g: 0.4cc
30g: 0.75cc
35g: 0.88cc (rounded-you don't have to be perfect)

(You may notice it's just a factor of 10 - all that happens is that the decimal place moves over one digit when we diluted it to a 1 in 10 solution)

Note to others who may find this thread later - the formulas here are applicable only for the liquid goat formulation of fenbendazole, which is a 10%, or 100mg/mL, solution (and which I like, because it dissolves so readily in water). If using the dry granules (generally sold for dogs), they are a 22.2% product, with 222mg/g, and must be dosed differently.

 

[Autumnsky]

You save the day!!!

Good pointing out difference between formulations for dogs and goats, for fish, lol. and snails and shrimps.

 

[Autumnsky]

Update

It is nearly a week later. Work was keeping me wiped out. I monitored each day and even stirred the sand again a couple days later. Still never saw another Planaria after the first day!

I will be doing a 50+% water change tomorrow, not repeating the dosage, just leaving well enough alone at the moment, unless I see any additional evidence of infection. I guess they must start out really small so I will keep watching with my magnifying glass each day. Another water change a few days after that.

I still have many tiny baby snails, previously lost a bunch of shrimp due to the Planaria. Since there lots of rocks and moss and plants it is difficult to count the shrimp. I think I counted either 7 or 8 shrimp.

One red, three nearly clear, one blue and two or three bronze ones.

I will be adding a few more blue ones as I can catch them from the big Cherry tank after I do the clean out tomorrow. If in the next few days no more Planaria...

 

[SolvingNormal]

Glad to hear it worked out so well for you. I have heard of planaria being introduced as eggs on plants, so if you bring new plants in I have heard of some people quarantining/treating the plants with fenbendazole (in the same concentration used in the tank) before planting if you are concerned about your source/supplier. But, like you saw, if you have an issue again (hope not) you have all the tools to nip it in the bud.

 

[Autumnsky]

Is that what they use for "dipping"? Or is that just one option? I hear all the time to dip your stuff before you put it in the tank. So far this has been the only outbreak

Thank goodness using the dip could help prevent this in the future. I lost all of the small young shrimp, and I added a few full sized ones from the big Red Cherry tank, mainly how I have any at all in that tank right now.

I lost the best blue ones. Still really sad about that. I had envisioned a little thriving community of "blue" variation red cherry shrimp. They are all really interesting to watch whichever color they are.