Puzzled

[TEXTank]

Ok, I've got a 29 gallon tank. It's been going for several years. Aqueon 30 filter & artificial plants. Within last year, only had a large Pleco and adult Bala Shark (about 10 inches). Pleco died several months ago, leaving only Bala. Eventually found a local shop that would take him and find him a more suitable home (he was purchased at large chain pet store 5 years ago when very small- had obviously outgrown the tank. With him gone, time to populate an established tank (or so I thought). Added a total of 17 fish (6 Platys and 11 Tetras) in 2 batches over 2 weeks. Feeding twice daily.

Where I believe I made my biggest mistake was cleaning the filter media basket (which is the Biological Filter with this filter) the last time I replaced the filter media. Didn't realize that was a mistake at the time. It's either that or I populated too quickly or have been over- feeding because my water test data looks like this: pH 78, Temp 78, Ammonia 1.0, Nitrite less than 0.25, Nitrate between 40-80 (difficult to differentiate with API test card). Did 40% WC last Friday. Using API SRESS ZYME and STRESS COAT, as well as Aquarium salt (the salt being dosed for just replacement water volume at each WC). Have been doing 25% WC daily, but cannot get levels where I think they should be.

Fish are all doing well. No signs of distress or disease. Healthy color. Perhaps my tank is cycling again? Tested tap water and it has 0 Nitrites and 0 Nitrates so WC should be helping. Am also going to take feeding down to once a day. Have I missed anything or does anyone else have any suggestions?

 

[Super_Blueberry]

Just keep up with those water changes to keep your ammo as close to 0 as you can. Bigger % changes are less stressful than swimming in ammonia

 

[TEXTank]

I don't really mind doing the changes and will continue to do them as long as needed. I'm just curious as to why this is happening and when I can expect things to settle down.

 

[threnjen]

I agree with the problem you hypothesized, which was cleaning the media basket. You clearly didn't kill off all the bacteria since you have nitrites and nitrates, but you definitely killed some of it. The tank will just need to catch up, and you'll need to stay on top of the parameters.

 

[TEXTank]

Thanks! I will drop to feeding once a day and increase water changes to twice daily if needed.

 

[NYgiantsRP]

You can even feed every other day. Or feed for two day and don't feed for two days. Fish don't need much food to live happily. Keep up the good effort!

 

[Scottyhorse]

You can even feed every other day. Or feed for two day and don't feed for two days. Fish don't need much food to live happily. Keep up the good effort!

Except for my gold barbs. They live for food.

 

[TEXTank]

Thanks for all of the suggestions and support! Does anyone have any idea how long it should take to recycle my tank? I'm down to one feeding per day. Doing two 25% WC a day to keep Ammonia levels "reasonable" and give the fish a fighting chance. Also testing water twice daily. I understand that the WC will prolong the cycling process, but I don't want to lose any more fish than I need to. All 17 appear to still be ok. Here are the readings after tonight's water test (as well as some short history):

Temp: 78
pH: 7.4 (7.0 on 12/28, 6.8 on 12/29, 7.8 on 12/30, 7.6 this morning)
Ammonia: 1.0 (0.25 on 12/28, 0.5 on 12/29, 1.0 on 12/30- stable since then)
Nitrite: less than 0.25 (0.25 until 12/30. Now something less but not yet 0)
Nitrate: 20 (80 on 12/28, 40-80 12/29-30, dropped to 20 today)

 

[Ian086]

Thanks for all of the suggestions and support! Does anyone have any idea how long it should take to recycle my tank? I'm down to one feeding per day. Doing two 25% WC a day to keep Ammonia levels "reasonable" and give the fish a fighting chance. Also testing water twice daily. I understand that the WC will prolong the cycling process, but I don't want to lose any more fish than I need to. All 17 appear to still be ok. Here are the readings after tonight's water test (as well as some short history):

Temp: 78
pH: 7.4 (7.0 on 12/28, 6.8 on 12/29, 7.8 on 12/30, 7.6 this morning)
Ammonia: 1.0 (0.25 on 12/28, 0.5 on 12/29, 1.0 on 12/30- stable since then)
Nitrite: less than 0.25 (0.25 until 12/30. Now something less but not yet 0)
Nitrate: 20 (80 on 12/28, 40-80 12/29-30, dropped to 20 today)

Sounds like a mini-cycle. Cut the feeding to every other day. Only feed tiny amounts at a time, not all at once. A good tip I was given is, try to never let the food hit the substrate. As soon as they stop eating or slow down, stop feeding.
The water, I would do one large change per day, 50%+. Same result and less hassle.....

 

[TEXTank]

I feed in very small pinches, allowing them to consume it all before adding the next one. It seems like 6 pinches is about right. Anything more than that is probably too much. This tends to prevent any food from making it to the substrate. These guys have been fed twice daily since I got them over a month ago. If I go to an every other day feeding, do I need to transition to this gradually or just make them fast tomorrow?

 

[Ian086]

No need to transition. Some people advise to fast them for a few days every so often to clear them out. Mine are actually more active since I switched to every other day feeding.....

 

[TEXTank]

Ok, no transition. I'll go to feeding every other day. Can move to one single large WC each day. Doing those things, how long will this "mini cycle" take to complete? I understand it's not an exact science- just looking for an estimate.

 

[Old Scales]

They'll do fine going to every other day immediately. Your fish may give you a few dirty looks but it won't cause them to be unhealthy as you get your mini-cycle done. Then you can go back to once a day if you choose. Good luck, OS.

 

[TEXTank]

One other question... Have been scouring the web in addition to this forum to learn as much as I can about cycling. I am now convinced that I am into a "mini cycle." I have seen some discussion on other forums about STOPPING STRESS ZYME (but continuing STRESS COAT) with these large water changes. Some folks feel that the bacteria in STRESS ZYME compete with the natural bacteria. Keep in mind that I am dosing for entire tank volume every time I do a WC. With 2 changes per day, that's a lot of product going into the tank. Perhaps this is causing a problem. I'm tempted to discontinue STRESS ZYME during this process. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[flitabout]

Water changes will not slow your cycle, little if any of the bb live in the water. My biggest suggestion is switching to prime for your water conditioner. I do have one question how long did you go with no fish before you added the platys?

 

[TEXTank]

Water changes will not slow your cycle, little if any of the bb live in the water. My biggest suggestion is switching to prime for your water conditioner. I do have one question how long did you go with no fish before you added the platys?

1. What, in your opinion, makes a Prime a better water conditioner than STRESS COAT?

2. There was not a time when the tank was empty. In fact, the way it really happened, I started adding new smaller fish (Tetras & Platys) while the Bala was still in there. I woke up the next morning and the 3 smallest Tetras were GONE! I believe the Bala ate them. That, combined with his size and my small tank, meant that I had to find him a new home. After removing him, I then added 2 more batches of small fish to reach my current population of 17.

3. Another related question- as I prepare to do a 40-50% water change this morning: should I be cleaning the substrate when doing the WC? I'm referring to specifically THIS period of time when working through this mini-cycle (not when doing weekly general water changes with a cycled tank). It seems that removing any debris would help get the Toxin levels down, but then again, I'm trying to recycle the tank.

 

[TEXTank]

Ok, here's a new "wrinkle" in the mystery- but a great clue too! Just tested the water this morning. It appears that the mini cycle is progressing (in some respects) in that Nitrite has dropped (somewhere between 0 and 0.25- difficult to tell with the test kit but the tint is much closer to 0) and Nitrate has dropped to between 10 and 20. The puzzling piece is that the Ammonia is still steady at between 0.5 and 1.0 (again, tough to tell exactly as the 2 tints look nearly identical on the API Master Test Kit card. So, I thought with doing all of these water changes is there any Ammonia in my tap water. I tested it and guess what? It's exactly the same! Reads between 0.5 and 1.0- no wonder the Ammonia level is not coming down!

Based in this, it's obvious that I will need to switch from STRESS COAT to a water conditioner that will also deal with Ammonia. Based on my experience, research, and this forum, it sounds like either Prime or Amquel Plus would be the way to go. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Old Scales]

Hi Text, Happy New Year,

Prime is great. It's what I use, but Amquel plus may be just as good. Look at the labels and see if Amquel doses at the same amount per gallon as the Prime. They both do the same thing as far as I can tell. So whichever one is easier to get and a better value for you is what I would use.
As far as cleaning the gravel. Unless it is really covered in detritus, it won't cause a mini cycle. Just keep the detritus on top of the gravel reasonably cleaned off but don't flush into the gravel too deeply unless you don't have any plants at all. With plants. you want some to get into the gravel to breakdown and help feed the plants.
The ammonia or ammonium that's in your tap water is probably a leftover from your municipal water treatment facility's sterilization process. It is a more chemically bound form that is less toxic than waste ammonia and your BB will break it down quickly. If you are on well water, them ammonia being present would be more of a concern as it would be the waste ammonia in the ground water from agriculture. If you dose your new water with the Prime or Amquel when you do WC's and when you test and your Ammo is never more than your tap water, then you know the BB is doing its job. But I would expect that like on day 7 before your weekly water change your tank water Ammo will be 0 from the BB breaking it down. Prime(and probably Amquel too) states that it will bind Ammo and other things into a harmless form for 48 hrs. In theory, this is time for your BB to convert it. Hope this helps, good luck, OS.

 

[TEXTank]

Hi Text, Happy New Year,

Prime is great. It's what I use, but Amquel plus may be just as good. Look at the labels and see if Amquel doses at the same amount per gallon as the Prime. They both do the same thing as far as I can tell. So whichever one is easier to get and a better value for you is what I would use.
As far as cleaning the gravel. Unless it is really covered in detritus, it won't cause a mini cycle. Just keep the detritus on top of the gravel reasonably cleaned off but don't flush into the gravel too deeply unless you don't have any plants at all. With plants. you want some to get into the gravel to breakdown and help feed the plants.
The ammonia or ammonium that's in your tap water is probably a leftover from your municipal water treatment facility's sterilization process. It is a more chemically bound form that is less toxic than waste ammonia and your BB will break it down quickly. If you are on well water, them ammonia being present would be more of a concern as it would be the waste ammonia in the ground water from agriculture. If you dose your new water with the Prime or Amquel when you do WC's and when you test and your Ammo is never more than your tap water, then you know the BB is doing its job. But I would expect that like on day 7 before your weekly water change your tank water Ammo will be 0 from the BB breaking it down. Prime(and probably Amquel too) states that it will bind Ammo and other things into a harmless form for 48 hrs. In theory, this is time for your BB to convert it. Hope this helps, good luck, OS.

Looks to me like Prime and Amquel Plus are about the same in terms of what they do. The dosing is quite different- 5mL for 10 gallons for Amquel and 5mL for 50 gallons for Prime, so Amquel would be used at a rate 5 times faster than Prime. The primary difference for me is that Amquel is compatible with my API water test kit, while Prime requires something different. Oddly, I have used Novaqua and Amquel successfully for years. I just recently switched to API products but it looks like I'll be switching back. I have "city water" from a municipal source, so the Amquel Plus should take care of that. I'll pick some up this morning, dose for the tank, and look forward to better readings tomorrow! Thanks for the help and Happy New Year to you too

 

[Ian086]

Looks to me like Prime and Amquel Plus are about the same in terms of what they do. The dosing is quite different- 5mL for 10 gallons for Amquel and 5mL for 50 gallons for Prime, so Amquel would be used at a rate 5 times faster than Prime. The primary difference for me is that Amquel is compatible with my API water test kit, while Prime requires something different. Oddly, I have used Novaqua and Amquel successfully for years. I just recently switched to API products but it looks like I'll be switching back. I have "city water" from a municipal source, so the Amquel Plus should take care of that. I'll pick some up this morning, dose for the tank, and look forward to better readings tomorrow! Thanks for the help and Happy New Year to you too

Many people here use Prime for their water and API test kits for testing it, with no issues. I have never heard of Prime not to be used with an API liquid test kit....