Retarting fishless cycle from scratch...help!

[librarygirl]

The argonite should help, it's trial and error with how much to add though. Start with a few pinches and then adjust accordingly as needed when you test PH. If it keeps dropping though the DW may be the cause. I had some soaking for two weeks in a bucket and each time I tested the PH it dropped drastically so I never ended up putting it into the tank (I'm impatient lol).

 

[sammybelle]

After yesterday's pH crash to 6.0 I did about a 50% PWC to get the pH to read 6.8. The ammonia and nitrites were still 0, thank goodness. So I added about a tablespoon of aragonite (put it into a stocking and then into the HOB filter compartment where the water first enters the filter.). Dosed ammonia back up to 4.0. I tested the water today at 6am and the pH had remained at 6.8. Then at 6pm I tested and it dropped to 6.6. Should I try adding another tablespoon?

The true pH of my tap water turned out to be the same as my previous test, about 7.4.

As for the driftwood, when I first got it I didn't actually boil it but poured boiling water over it and let it soak for several days, changed water about 3 times until the water was pretty colorless.The whole process lasted about 1 1/2 weeks before I put it into the tank.

Just for my information, is 6.0 the pH at which the BB die off? How much time does it take before the BB colony is gone when the pH sits at this level? In other words, will the BB die at 6.0 in 6 hours? 12? 24? etc...

 

[jlk]

Yes, I would add some more argonite. I think your dw is def playing a role here because your tap reads 7.4. It needs to be extensively soaked to limit the affects it has on water. Some people soak it for months...

In respect to the bb, they slow down their growth & conversion @6.5. Conversion stops altogether @6 due to the acidic environment because the chemical process of conversion is inhibited & their multiplication is limited as well. Does the bacteria start to die at this point? Probably not immediately but they are no longer capable of obtaining food at 6ph & they will eventually starve. I honestly do not how long this process would take without a lab & microscope so I am afraid I can not provide a more exact answer. Ill do some looking though to see if I can find a better answer for you!

 

[librarygirl]

You could remove the dw and test ph for a few days to see if that's the culprit. You could also do a 100% water change to get the PH back up to your tap's PH of 7.4 and then try adding more argonite and see if you can get it to stay stable.

 

[sammybelle]

You could remove the dw and test ph for a few days to see if that's the culprit. You could also do a 100% water change to get the PH back up to your tap's PH of 7.4 and then try adding more argonite and see if you can get it to stay stable.

Even before I read your post that's pretty much what I decided to do! Wow! Maybe I'm actually learning something!

Last night I added another tablespoon of aragonite to the filter and still the pH dropped.

So I removed DW, changed 100% water, dosed ammonia up to 4.0. I also removed the aragonite, because I wanted to just let the tank be for a few days without any kind of additives to see if the pH would remain stable. When I refilled the tank the pH was 7.4 - 7.6 with the new water. Meanwhile I am boiling the DW. I found a site relating to DW that said to boil the DW for 15 minutes x3. Already after the first boil, there is a LOT of tannin being released--more after that first boil that there was in the 1 1/2 week of soaking that I had done previously. If the DW is the culprit, even after boiling, I may have to do away with it (although I hate to!, are there no other alternatives?) or maybe I can use less.

Will keep you posted!

 

[sammybelle]

Wondering about BB and fish survival with pH trouble...

All of this pH trouble I've been having makes me wonder...say for example my tank someday stabilizes at 6.6. My tap water's pH seems to be in the 7.4-7.6 range. How will I ever accomplish water changes with fish in the tank so as not to stress them out? Or is my goal to maintain the pH of my tank to match my tap water pH range? In any case, once fish are in the tank, even though fish might adapt to a 6.0, must I always watch to see that the pH never falls below 6.0 or risk killing off the BB?

 

[jlk]

I think your going to see your ph stabilze around your taps # without the dw in there. Lets see what happens. Drops may very well still occur from the conversion process- if this is the case, then the argonite will help stabilize this. We will address issues depending on what happens over the next few days with your ph. I wouldnt worry too much right now!

 

[sammybelle]

Here's the latest...at 8:30 this am the pH had stayed the same as it was at 11pm the night before: 7.2 . At that time the ammonia was 1.0 and nitrites 0. At 4:30pm today the pH had dropped to just a hair over 6.6, ammonia 0.25. Now at 9:30pm pH is 6.6, ammonia and nitrites =0, nitrates 40. jlk, you had said that I could expect the pH to drop due to conversion, and sure enough it seems that it did! Should I do a water change again (pls tell me if I should do 100% or less) and then add aragonite right away to that? I suppose there's no point in adding it to a 6.6 pH now? Thanks!

 

[jlk]

If you have time tonight for a water change, great- if not, no big deal just skip the ammonia for tonight. I would aim for 50-75% which should be enough to bump your ph back up & then add some more argonite. Thats great your amm/nitrite zeroed, btw!!!! Hopefully, we can keep these numbers zeroing out steadily!

 

[sammybelle]

I had already dosed up the ammonia again after I took all those readings at 9:30 pm. But I have had enough for tonight, so I'll do the water change tomorrow. Yes, I am grateful that my ammo/nitrites keep on zero-ing...I'm guessing that would mean I'm ready for fish after the pH problem gets resolved?

 

[jlk]

Yes, you will be! We just need to find a bit of balance here- cant have the ph crashing daily with fish in the tank. We will get it straightened out over the next few days, so dont worry!

 

[sammybelle]

Just wondering why you suggested skipping the ammonia last night...I thought the idea was to keep the BB fed until fish are in tank, especially where the reading was 0 yesterday. After I do the big water change today and add the aragonite, should I skip the ammonia today or maybe dose it up to only 1 or 2ppm?

 

[jlk]

Just wondering why you suggested skipping the ammonia last night...I thought the idea was to keep the BB fed until fish are in tank, especially where the reading was 0 yesterday. After I do the big water change today and add the aragonite, should I skip the ammonia today or maybe dose it up to only 1 or 2ppm?

My suggestion for not dosing was based on not doing a water change. Because your ph was already at 6.5 due to massive conversion of ammonia, skipping the ammonia for a night would prevent any further drops from more conversion.

Your bb will not starve from lack of ammonia for a night or even a couple of days. I keep my qt tank cycled with ammonia & have experimented a bit with it. The longest i have left it with no amm is 4-5 days (so far) and there has been no issue keeping it cycled. I suspect the bb can actually last a week or even much longer but I havent tried this yet (in fear of losing the cycle). I have also tried dropping the amm dose down to 1-2 for days at a time then increasing it back up to 4ppm- the bb are able to 'recover' & convert the full dose within 2-3 days. So, dont worry about your bb!!!

See how your numbers look today, do a water change & add more arg and then just add 2ppm amm for tonight & lets see what happens with everything tommorrow!

 

[mozcheez]

Just wanted to put in a line of support for you. I just read through this entire thread and it was actually very interesting to follow You're extremely dedicated and patient with this pH issue, and you're getting lots of great help. Good luck!

 

[sammybelle]

Just wanted to put in a line of support for you. I just read through this entire thread and it was actually very interesting to follow You're extremely dedicated and patient with this pH issue, and you're getting lots of great help. Good luck!

Thanks, Mozcheez! It's gratifying to know that you actually find my journey interesting! I am considered to be extremely patient by friends and coworkers, and it's a good thing I have a seemingly endless supply of that patience as it applies to this endeavor. Thanks for your support, too!

 

[sammybelle]

pH pHinally starting to stabilize, I hope?

My tap true pH is, if I recall, 7.6

Monday 2/27
9:30 am
pH=6.8 (up from 6.6, oddly)
ammonia 1.0. After a water change at noon and adding 2 fresh tablespoons of aragonite to my filter, pH = 7.4 (hi range test) 7.6 (regular test)
8 pm pH was between 7.2/7.6 (reg test), 7.4 hi test

Tuesday 2/28
5:30 am
pH=7.6 lo test, 7.4 hi test
9:15 pm
pH between 7.2-7.6 (lo test)
ammonia=0, added 2.5 ml ammonia

Wednesday 2/29
5:30 am
pH = between 7.2-7.6
ammonia 0.25
10:30 pm
pH= betw 7.2-7.6, ammonia, nitrites=0, nitrates=20
added 2.5 ml ammonia

I thought I might check all of this for another day or 2, and then...maybe ready for fish?!!!

 

[jlk]

Thats great news that your ph is stabilizing!!! We just need to make sure your ammonia & nitrites are zeroing out completely in 24hrs steadily for a few days in row. If they are, then you should be ready for fish by the weekend!

 

[sammybelle]

Yes, I'll make sure they are zeroing in 24 hours. The 0.25 readings were done only after about 9 or 10 hours after dosing. About the aragonite: are the 2 tablespoons I added good forever, or does it have a limited life? If limited, how often should I put new aragonite in there?

 

[jlk]

Thats a good question! It does gradually dissolve but im honestly not sure how long it will take (Librarygirl may know the answer). I would check it periodically (such as when you swish your filter media) & add it bit more if it looks like the amount is starting to shrink. Best answer I can offer because I dont have the exact answer!

 

[jlk]

Ok- the only info I could discover specifically to dissolution of argonite is that it starts to dissolve once the ph drops below 7.5 & the more acidic the water is, the faster it dissolves. So, just keep an eye on whats in your filter & re-add as needed.