Ryukins in the backyard pond

[Sharpchick]

I'm in the process of building my bog filter for my 275 gallon stock tank to convert it into a goldfish pond. (Taking photos each step of the way, and will do a bog filter build thread in this forum when it's complete, which I expect to be on or before the first of May.)

And I go into the house and look at Gypsy and Blondie in their 29 gallon tank.

And look back at the photos I had of them when they were wee things, and the tank looked quite large.

They are growing so well. But they would have more space in the pond instead of the tank, so I've decided that instead of rescuing comets and shubunkins for the pond, I'm going to make the goldfish pond for ryukins.

I'm in USDA hardiness zone 7. My freeze free location on the map below is the area of Arkansas with the lighter shade of gray.

I've turned off the heater in their tank to let the temperature (if it will) start dropping. I'll use successive water changes over the next couple of weeks to try and gradually lower the temperature to try to keep from having a huge difference in temp to acclimate them to before going into the pond.

By the time they are ready to go in, we are forecasted to have air temps reliably in the upper 70s, so after this round of storms tonight, I'll go ahead and fill the tank to let the water start warming up.

This will be a 275 gallon tank with a 60 gallon (probably functional 50 gallon when you take into account the gravel) bog filter.

How many ryukins do you think are appropriate? I'm thinking 8 would be on the high end for my comfort level. I'm not going to mix them with comets or shubunkins.

 

[jlk]

I am on my cell so I can not easily see your cold zone. How exactly are your winters temperature wise, snow, days below 50 (40,30,etc)? This eill be above ground, correct? Do you plan on heating it through the winter?

This should be your deciding factor on stocking with ryukins. Ryukins are more disposed to buoyancy issues than quite a few other goldfish breeds. As the temperature drops, buoyancy issues can become more rampant so you will need to be prepared to bring them in for the winter. It will be easier to house a few ryukins inside vs eight or more. Same goes for the opposite in temps- high pond temps is the biggest cause of fancy demise in the summer. You may want to seek out a breeder that exclusively raises and breeds ryukins outside in ponds. Just a few suggestions!

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Ryukins are more disposed to buoyancy issues than quite a few other goldfish breeds.

Boy, is this true and am I WELL aware of it...

We have a silver and gold Ryukin, "Mr. Bubbles," who from the day we bought him just can't swim straight to save his poor fins...

This fish was originally purchased as a tankmate for our aggressive Red Cap Oranda who was moved to a 10 gallon after attacking two other fish we ended up losing to a bacterial infection, along with an orange Common Fantail, and he has survived not only almost a year in the 10 gallon but also the move to the new 60 gallon, where he continues to grow and endure...but almost daily he battles this buoyancy issue JLK cites above, in which he cannot seem to swim straight no matter how hard he tries...and he TRIES. Sometimes we think he is dead when we approach the tank, as he's sleeping completely upside down...but he quickly snaps awake and swims away, straightening up...it's the strangest thing...

We have fed him peas, which seems to help, and have even fasted for a day which seems to help as well...what we have noticed is that when he gets too much food into him, this upside down swim bloat and erratic swimming problem kicks in...and the very next morning, he goes back to swimming normally...even stranger is the fact that he has actually been growing, changing colors a bit (he's half silver and half gold/orange now, which looks unique) and eats with authority and stamina regardless of this buoyancy problem...

Our guy REFUSES to give in to this problem and we're proud of him!

 

[Sharpchick]

I am on my cell so I can not easily see your cold zone. How exactly are your winters temperature wise, snow, days below 50 (40,30,etc)? This eill be above ground, correct? Do you plan on heating it through the winter?

This should be your deciding factor on stocking with ryukins. Ryukins are more disposed to buoyancy issues than quite a few other goldfish breeds. As the temperature drops, buoyancy issues can become more rampant so you will need to be prepared to bring them in for the winter. It will be easier to house a few ryukins inside vs eight or more. Same goes for the opposite in temps- high pond temps is the biggest cause of fancy demise in the summer. You may want to seek out a breeder that exclusively raises and breeds ryukins outside in ponds. Just a few suggestions!

Snow is very rare in my part of the state (aside from a few spitting flakes we get that cover grassy areas). I've used this tank as a water feature for the past five years, and this past Christmas was the first time there was ice on it. The ice was 1/4 of an inch thick, and remained for six days. I'll get a pond de-icer for the rare occasions we have enough freezing days that it actually ices. Although the Farmers Almanac say our first frost date is mid-November, we usually are frost free until Thanksgiving, and there have been some Christmases I've had my windows open.

Our summers are more of an issue. My plan is to build a PVC frame that I can use to hold a shade cloth, which will also help with debris from nearby trees. The tank is in my east garden, so it will get direct sun until about 2p in the afternoon. After that, there is shade from large pine and oak trees in that area of the garden. I've also ordered enough floating plants to cover about 40% of the surface area of the pond. (I'll be using duckweed, salvinia minima and frogbit. I expect the fish to eat quite a bit of the duckweed, but so far, Gypsy and Blondie haven't made a dent in the frogbit in their tank, although they pick at it all the time.)

Gold fish back in the Garden Pond. Ryukin Goldfish, Fancy Goldfish Garden pond - YouTube
This video is from Lexington, KY, which is a little farther north than me. According to what Dustin says, he took his baby ryukins in the for the winter, and when he went back out in the spring to put them back in the pond, he saw that he had missed babies that overwintered with no problems, so he decided to leave babies and adults in the pond year round.

In addition, I've been cruising pond forums for this very topic, and found several ponders who also raise ryukins in ponds year round (it's not my goal to breed, but according to some of these ponders, once you get them in a pond, breeding often happens). I'll be taking their advice on using Prazi twice a year, as well as changing the food as temps start dropping in the fall, and then rising again in the spring.

 

[jlk]

I am glad you are doing your research! I just want to make sure you are prepared in advance in the event you do need to bring fish inside. That would be my main concern beyond the possibility of predators enjoying an easy snack (net works well for this). Look forward to seeing pics of your progress!

 

[Sharpchick]

I do appreciate comments you make in all the forums and threads I've read when you have replied. We need all the accurate information and educated points of view we can get when we talk about the animals who share our lives - even when they have gills and fins instead of fur.

I think the predator issue will be a manageable one. One of the good things about a stock tank as a pond is that it is elevated off the ground, deep, and has straight sides that get slick as snot with algae (a salad bar for the fish!).

Raccoons are the primary predator threat. There are no natural or manmade platforms close to the tank for them to use to stand on and go fishing. It's unlikely they will be willing - even the adults - to go swimming in two feet of water in that confined space. Although I will be using an 8 inch tall pump housing to elevate a planting container for a hardy lotus, it won't be next to the side of the tank. There will also be several bunches (I think I ordered a dozen) of submerged plants that should, combined with the floating plants, provide cover and hiding places for the fish.

I live at the edge of a strip of mixed pine and hardwood forest that is about 300 acres. Although we do have owls in the woods, I've never seen any evidence of a kill in my garden.

I'm getting more excited with each day. I am also checking all my multiple lists - for example, I still need to order a floating pond thermometer and get my pond dechlorinator. I've arranged for the pond and bog plants to ship in about 10 days. I'll also be using some marginal plants people consider to be terrestrial, like impatiens, in the bog although most of the bog plants are hardy perennials.

I have to complete the bog filter, get the plants in the pond, and planted in the bog. I want to let the plants settle in for a week and check the water chemistry daily before I add the fish.

I'm really curious to check growth rate of the fish in the pond as opposed to my experience with goldies in tanks.

 

[jlk]

I tried impatiens last summer and they actually faired surprisingly well. I also tried some terrestrial lilies such as canna lilies and they did well, too. Herons are the biggest issue I have but I don't know how common they are in your area. Just make sure you qt and prazi anyone you want to add. It's a lot less expensive to deal with health issues in a smaller amount of water. And realize that your pond will cycle just like a tank- stock slowly and keep an eye on your parameters during the process.

 

[Sharpchick]

I tried impatiens last summer and they actually faired surprisingly well. I also tried some terrestrial lilies such as canna lilies and they did well, too. Herons are the biggest issue I have but I don't know how common they are in your area. Just make sure you qt and prazi anyone you want to add. It's a lot less expensive to deal with health issues in a smaller amount of water. And realize that your pond will cycle just like a tank- stock slowly and keep an eye on your parameters during the process.

I thought about some dwarf daylilies. They handle wet feet pretty well. Then, my mind drifted to carnivorous plants, and now, I'm envisioning a tiny little carnivorous bog build...

No herons here. When we get a lot of rain, we have an occasional flock of lost geese in some low lying areas of my neighbor's pasture.

And yep - I'll add fish slowly...

 

[Fresh2o]

Can't wait till you get this setup and going. Nothing the coloration goldfish get while outdoors. Reds are so red (and sometimes the whites turn pink).

I had a raccoon visit my small garden pond (~60g) and take out a small group of comets. now I have 5-6 rosy red minnows and a small school of mosquito fish.

 

[Sharpchick]

Can't wait till you get this setup and going. Nothing the coloration goldfish get while outdoors. Reds are so red (and sometimes the whites turn pink).

I had a raccoon visit my small garden pond (~60g) and take out a small group of comets. now I have 5-6 rosy red minnows and a small school of mosquito fish.

Aww man. That is awful.

Good to know about coloration. I assume my calico Gypsy will retain his color?

Yeah, I'm pumped. I'll do a photo intensive separate thread on the build when it's done.

With this, I get to combine some of my favorite ways to relax - gardening, fish and enjoying my little slice of nature - even though this is a modest venture.

People talk all over the forum about their dream tanks. I love the tanks, but I think my dream tank would be a huge honking pond...

 

[Sharpchick]

I am loving this pond.

There are now six ryukins - four are wees, as yet unnamed while my grandkids ponder this very important decision.

I thought the wees might be a bit skittish about my hand in the water, but they have either come to associate the face looming over the pond and the hand in it with food, or they are following Blondie and Gypsy's lead. (They tend to follow Blondie and Gypsy all over the pond, and it's a hoot - looks like a little family with 4 toddlers underfoot.)



Blondie and Gypsy still swim into my hand and nibble my fingers whenever they have the chance.

 

[germanyt]

I had a water garden in my backyard when I was a kid. My mom was the prez of the Baton Rouge Water Garden Society. We had 5 Koi in probably a 500 gallon pond. I wish I had pics. Anyway, it would occasionally get a thin sheet of ice over it during the coldest nights. I used to like to go out the next morning and break the ice up into large pieces and hurl them into the yard. It is my opinion that since this didn't seem to bother the Koi in the slightest and that since both Koi and goldfish are carp you could keep the ryukin in a pond in Maine and it'd be okay.

 

[Sharpchick]

I don't think there's going to be a problem with these fish staying year round in this pond.

An issue would be with more than an inch or so of snow, if there were no cover over it. That could drop the water temp rapidly if lots of snow entered the water.

My plan is to have a framed cover built shortly with hardware cloth, because pretty soon I'll be needing to shade it. This winter, I'll add a denser cover over that, and use bagged leaves and pine needles around the exposed sides.

 

[Sharpchick]

Updating this thread with some new photos.

The plants in the bog filter are coming along nicely. I'm very pleased with the growth of the impatiens, since a lot of people consider them to be terrestrial-only plants.



My water lettuce and other floaters were getting bounced around a bit when they passed under the outflow pipe from the bog into the pond.



So I figured if you can corral floaters in an aquarium, you ought to be able to do it in a pond to keep them in a calm water location.

Airline to the rescue...



Full pond shot...



I'm starting to cut back on feeding since we are getting a nice stand of algae on pond surfaces, and I've observed all the fish, including the wees, eating it.

But I do still feed about 4 times a week, and Blondie still loves her zucchini. (The wees had to watch Blondie and Gypsy eating veggies to decide that was a good idea.)



I'm quite excited about the growth of the water lotus. I had been told they could be temperamental if you didn't plant the tuber just so...

The largest leaf is about 4 inches in diameter now, and it puts on more leaves every day.



All the ponders on forums I haunted last winter assured me that cycling a pond was a much quicker adventure than an aquarium, and that with the bog filter and pond planted properly, I'd hardly even notice it.

That's been true. I've been checking water chemistry weekly. For a couple of weeks early on, I had ammonia readings of between 0/.25 ppm. I've done no water changes, and let nature substitute with rainfall. There is no detectable ammonia in the pond now, and the pH holds steady at 7.4.

 

[Shanny]

That is looking awesome! I love it!

 

[Sharpchick]

That is looking awesome! I love it!

Thanks. I feel like I'm watching it change day by day. There's always something new to see.

The submerged plants - particularly the cabomba and anacharis - have just exploded with growth. I think there's some nibbling by the fish, but it hasn't affected the growth of the plants.

 

[Alspond]

I'm quite excited about the growth of the water lotus. I had been told they could be temperamental if you didn't plant the tuber just so...

The largest leaf is about 4 inches in diameter now, and it puts on more leaves every day.

Your plants are looking great!
Your lotus will soon be sending up the emergent leaves and hopefully a flower spikes.

I have a lot of the American Lotus in our dirt bottom ponds.
These I grew from seeds. Takes about 8 months to get them flowering.
The photo was taken about a year after I put about 15 sprouted lotus in the far side of the pond.

I haven't done well trying to move tubers.

You could probably grow lotus in your bog filter.

 

[Sharpchick]

Your plants are looking great!
Your lotus will soon be sending up the emergent leaves and hopefully a flower spikes.

I have a lot of the American Lotus in our dirt bottom ponds.
These I grew from seeds. Takes about 8 months to get them flowering.
The photo was taken about a year after I put about 15 sprouted lotus in the far side of the pond.

I haven't done well trying to move tubers.

You could probably grow lotus in your bog filter.

The one I ordered is Evening Showers. It's a dwarf variety for tubs and small ponds.

The company I ordered it from told me to start with it about 3-6" under the surface of the water to start, and at maturity, to drop it 12-18" below the surface of the water.

How would I move lotus tubers gradually deeper in the bog filter?

 

[Alspond]

You can try growing some from seeds.
Lotus will form a seed pod that replaces the bloom.
It is sort of cup shaped with a top that has little pockets for each seed.

When it gets dry and a little brown the seeds are ready. Sometimes they will shake out when the pod is held upside down.
I usually tear the pod apart to get them

Lotus seeds are designed not to grow and remain viable for a long time. I read that some found in the Egyptian pyramids were viable.
They need to be scarified. You can rub them on rough sandpaper , a concrete block, sidewalk,

I hold the seeds on the side of a grinding wheel for about 5 seconds.
What I do is look for a hint of white.
I rinse the seeds put them in a gallon jar of water and wait. I change the water if it gets cloudy.
in 3 days to a week a little leaf will pop out.
When the leaf stem is 6-8 long I plant them.

They will need a couple of months of warm weather to grow so you might want to start the seeds in June.
In Florida I can plant them in October and it works great.

I usually put 4-5 plants in something like a plastic margarine tub as a pot.
I mix 1/2-1/2 composted manure and sand put this in the pot then an inch of clean sand on the top,
I press the seed into the sand so that the emerging stem is just out of the sand.
I then set the pot on the edge of my pond where there is a shelf about ten inches deep.
In a month the will start getting more mature looking leaves.
Then they are ready to transplant into a more permanent home.
They don't have any tubers yet, just roots and leaves.

You could try pressing two sprouted seeds into your bog.

If the lotus start to dominate your bog you can cut some leaves off.
Cutting off all of the leaves over a period of time will kill them if you decide you don't like them in the bog.

The American lotus I have grows from slightly above the water line to 4 feet deep.

 

[Sharpchick]

Oh wow. Now I think I might have to try that.

And viability is astonishing. In the Egyptian pyramids. I am stunned and awed at the design of all living things.