Seeding Question

[savage]

I'm not in a pinch with this question or anything, but it was just something that I was pondering

Isn't a cycle (regardless of type) just the process of balancing benficial bacteria to the waste production of your tank?

If that's so, then wouldn't removing seeded materials from a tank create the possibility of causing a slight deficiency of BB in the tank you're taking it from?

Sorry, but sometimes I get in 'deep-thinking' mode. This would be one of those times.

I just figure that if BB can be starved to death, and over-fed (not being able to keep up with waste production), that there would naturally be an adjustment period for the BB that remain after you remove the seeded material.

I'm no scientist, so hopefully this question isn't ridiculous. Just something that popped into my grape while I was staring at my tank!

 

[jcolon]

Yes that can happen which is why you want to monitor for a Mini-Cycle. Removing filter media like ceramic rings may have more impact for a mini-cycle than say removing substrate / DW etc. Fortunately, bacteria will multiply fairly fast to make up for a loss of numbers.

 

[Terrance]

yeah its possible. Someone once told me that a well established tank will not run into mini-cycles once your take 1/3 of a tank's BB.

IMO, I don't really like the idea of seeding a tank. There is a fast way of cycling a tank without seeding a tank. It involves being very precise with the amount of ammonia you add to your tank everyday, and your tank can be cycled in 2 weeks.

 

[savage]

Thanks! I appreciate the replies. There's a lot of thought that goes into cycling. Of course, I see that most people come on here already having put fish in an uncycled tank (including me) and they're scrambling for faster ways to get it done. I ended up doing daily water changes (50%, and more once a week). It took about 3 weeks on my 20g and I lost one Glowlight Tetra. The other nine are great now, as well as the three Cory's and the Gourami.

So was it ultimately successful because of the water changes only? Sorry, I'm just babbling out loud now. Anyhow, thanks again for the responses.

 

[Terrance]

Yeah you probably saved your fish's life by doing those water changes.

50% water changes recommended per week for a stable tank. Fresh water helps a lot.

 

[jetajockey]

yeah its possible. Someone once told me that a well established tank will not run into mini-cycles once your take 1/3 of a tank's BB.

IMO, I don't really like the idea of seeding a tank. There is a fast way of cycling a tank without seeding a tank. It involves being very precise with the amount of ammonia you add to your tank everyday, and your tank can be cycled in 2 weeks.

I agree, well established tanks usually don't have an issue compensating.

I am interested to hear your fast way of cycling a tank without the addition of bacteria supplements, you should make a thread on it.

 

[Terrance]

I am interested to hear your fast way of cycling a tank without the addition of bacteria supplements, you should make a thread on it.

The Puffer Forum • View topic - Fishless Cycling

I tried it and it worked for me in 16 days. It was a pain to test ammonia and nitrite constantly. I hated it, but it got the job done fast. I'd rather do it the slow and lazy way. Just a little bit of ammonia everyday initially and then every other day in the later stages of cycling.

 

[Josh1158]

I've taken gravel, water and a filter pad from my 55 and tossed it in a 20 for my mom and the 20 never really cycled at all and she didn't lose any fish

 

[savage]

I've taken gravel, water and a filter pad from my 55 and tossed it in a 20 for my mom and the 20 never really cycled at all and she didn't lose any fish

Did the filter pad removal cause any changes in the 55g?

 

[jetajockey]

The Puffer Forum • View topic - Fishless Cycling

I tried it and it worked for me in 16 days. It was a pain to test ammonia and nitrite constantly. I hated it, but it got the job done fast. I'd rather do it the slow and lazy way. Just a little bit of ammonia everyday initially and then every other day in the later stages of cycling.

Thanks for the link. I read it and don't see anything different about this method vs other ones (like the article here for example), so I wasn't sure what you meant.


Whether or not you are precise with the amount of ammonia you add, the bacteria colony still takes time to multiply, and inoculating a tank with a live bacteria colony is by far the fastest way.

 

[adadkins1]

I agree with jeta, the method described is the same one I followed and it takes time. Sometimes you get lucky and it only takes 2 weeks, but most of the time it takes longer. I have cycled a tank instantly (lots of media and it was a small tank), so I think it goes without saying that seeding is a good way to help a cycle along. I am a big proponent of it, it can save a fish's life!

 

[Terrance]

Its not luck, but a precise science that could be repeated multiple times with the same result being ~2 weeks. It helps greatly if you can get a dropper since pouring ammonia from bottle directly into the tank is not considered precise.

I'm done with setting up FW tanks, so no more trials. My 16 day cycling a 120g tank is proof enough for me. Next project will be SW.

 

[Josh1158]

Did the filter pad removal cause any changes in the 55g?

No I had 2 filters on it. A penguin 330 and some other large H.O.B filter and I took a rinsed out one from tge

 

[Josh1158]

Darn phone... The 330 that fit in a smaller filter for the 20. I change the filter pads every few months, and I switch which filter I change and I've had a variety of fish in there at different times with no problem

 

[adadkins1]

Its not luck, but a precise science that could be repeated multiple times with the same result being ~2 weeks. It helps greatly if you can get a dropper since pouring ammonia from bottle directly into the tank is not considered precise.

I'm done with setting up FW tanks, so no more trials. My 16 day cycling a 120g tank is proof enough for me. Next project will be SW.

Well, I did it as described above. Added the number of drops to get 4ppm, then wrote that down. Tested the ammonia/nitrIte levels consistently 1 to 2 times per day. Still yet on the 16 day I was just beginning to show nitrItes, so it seems as though the method failed for me.

 

[Terrance]

You need exactly 5 ppm. I saw nitrite spike around day 8 or 9 in a bare tank with 2 new hob filter.

 

[HeatherW]

adding the ammonia

You need exactly 5 ppm. I saw nitrite spike around day 8 or 9 in a bare tank with 2 new hob filter.

how do you know how much ammonia to add to get to 5ppm? I am getting ready to start up a 90 gallon using this method. I have a syringe labled up to 5 ml that I plan on using.

so here are a couple of questions. I add a few (how many) drops of ammonia in to get the tank to 5ppm. when do I test it know that it is at 5ppm? won't it take a while for the ammonia to be cyled throughout the whole tank? this is the step I am unclear about.

also, I read somewhere that someone said there was a tip for how much ammonia to add based on how big your tank was. can someone help me out on this part too? once I know how much to add (let's say 5 drops) then do I keep adding 5 drops every day or do I have to keep adjusting based on what the reading is for that day?

 

[Terrance]

Add ammonia and test. If not up to 5ppm, then add more another drop or two and test again. Repeat until up to 5ppm. I'm reluctant to use a syringe unless I know how much ammonia is needed to get the tank to 5ppm. Droppers are more consistent.

Lets say you add 3 drops of ammonia and it gets reading of 2ppm. Then add another 3 drops to get readings around 4ppm. Then add another drop and test again.

Every day test the water around the same time and keep it at 5ppm by adding a drop or two of ammonia and testing. IMO this is the annoying part because I don't like testing so frequently. After day 4 or 5, start testing for nitrite and wait for the spike. When the spike occurs, then keep ammonia to 2.5ppm.

If you get really good at this, then you should take 10-14 days to cycle a tank.

 

[HeatherW]

Add ammonia and test. If not up to 5ppm, then add more another drop or two and test again. Repeat until up to 5ppm. I'm reluctant to use a syringe unless I know how much ammonia is needed to get the tank to 5ppm. Droppers are more consistent.

Lets say you add 3 drops of ammonia and it gets reading of 2ppm. Then add another 3 drops to get readings around 4ppm. Then add another drop and test again.

Every day test the water around the same time and keep it at 5ppm by adding a drop or two of ammonia and testing. IMO this is the annoying part because I don't like testing so frequently. After day 4 or 5, start testing for nitrite and wait for the spike. When the spike occurs, then keep ammonia to 2.5ppm.

If you get really good at this, then you should take 10-14 days to cycle a tank.

thanks! so I don't need to wait any between when I drop the ammonia in and when I test? I kinda figured this out - my whole tank should cycle through in less than 15 min or so right? so the idea is that the ammonia is evenly distributed in the tank?

 

[adadkins1]

Yeah, I would wait a few minutes anyway so the ammonia is equal throughout the tank and you get an accurate reading.