Self-Sustaining Tank???

[Rivercats]

Hello again Rcats...

Okay. I have the pics ready. Now, what are the steps for getting them out to everyone.

B

I hope you realize this is the blind leading the blind!

Go to the "CP user" at the top of the page on the blue bar and click on it. This takes you to your User Control Panel. On the left side of the page go down to "Pictures and Albums" and click on it. You will see "Add Albums". Click on it. Then just follow the directions like you would when you add pic's to a post... click on browse to load pic's then once loaded click on the "add to album".

EDIT: Then post a link to your album on your post.

 

[BBradbury]

Self-Sustaining Tanks

I hope you realize this is the blind leading the blind!

Go to the "CP user" at the top of the page on the blue bar and click on it. This takes you to your User Control Panel. On the left side of the page go down to "Pictures and Albums" and click on it. You will see "Add Albums". Click on it. Then just follow the directions like you would when you add pic's to a post... click on browse to load pic's then once loaded click on the "add to album".

EDIT: Then post a link to your album on your post.

Rcats...

Thanks for the assistance. I'll see what I can do.

B

 

[BBradbury]

Self-Sustaining Tanks

Hello all...

Finally got a picture of a very low maintenance tank. It combines land and aquatic plants. The Aglaonema takes in most of the nitrogens produced by the fish and with small, weekly water changes, the tank water chemistry stays steady. The aquatic plants are Anubias, Anacharis and Pennywort.

This is a smaller version of the larger tanks I keep. The more "Ag" plants you emerse in the water, the cleaner and fewer water changes are needed.

Not pretty, but my goal is pure water conditions for the fish and plants. I have other pics, if anyone is interested.

B

 

[Samdaman]

What breed of land plant is suitable to have its roots submerged because at the moment I'm just growing chives

 

[Rivercats]

Any house plant that you can root in water from a cutting . This thread should give you some good ideas... Planted HOB thread..

 

[BBradbury]

Emersed Land Plants

What breed of land plant is suitable to have its roots submerged because at the moment I'm just growing chives

Hello Sam...

I've tried a number of house plants and some just won't grow very long with their roots emersed. Aglaonema (Chinese Evergreen) is by far the best. The Gemini and Cutlass varieties are excellent. Philodendron (Pathos), Nephthytis and Impatiens (Shady Lady) will also work. I've had the "Ag" plants growing in some of my tanks for 3 years with no problem. These plants keep the tank water very clean. The plants do need to be trimmed regularly, just like the aquatic kinds and replaced after a time.

B

 

[Samdaman]

Hello Sam... I've tried a number of house plants and some just won't grow very long with their roots emersed. Aglaonema (Chinese Evergreen) is by far the best. The Gemini and Cutlass varieties are excellent. Philodendron (Pathos), Nephthytis and Impatiens (Shady Lady) will also work. I've had the "Ag" plants growing in some of my tanks for 3 years with no problem. These plants keep the tank water very clean. The plants do need to be trimmed regularly, just like the aquatic kinds and replaced after a time. B

Thank you I work at a nursery/LFS so I will check stock tomorrow and see what we have

 

[Samdaman]

Soil or no soil also how deep In the water

 

[BBradbury]

Emersed Land Plants

Soil or no soil also how deep In the water

Hi Sam...

No soil is needed for the emersed land plants. You do need to remove all the potting mixture from the roots, so they can take in the nutrients from the tank water. I run a small air stone underneath the roots. This moves the water through the roots and helps with nutrient absorption. You just need to emerse the roots, the leaves must be above water. You don't want too much aeration, because you'll remove carbon dioxide from the aquatic plants. The land plants take in the CO2 through their leaves from the surrounding air, so the tank must be open. The Evergreen Cutlass and small weekly water changes have kept the water in my tanks pure for several years. The last water test showed no trace of ammonia or nitrite and the nitrates were at 10 ppm. But, I haven't tested the water in the tanks for quite some time.

B

 

[Rivercats]

I wouldn't use an airstone if you have submerged aquatic plants also as you want the CO2 in the water for them. That is why we run CO2 during the day in our planted tanks.

 

[GodFan]

I wouldn't use an airstone if you have submerged aquatic plants also as you want the CO2 in the water for them. That is why we run CO2 during the day in our planted tanks.

Unless I am misunderstanding that applies to high light only. Also even in those setups a airstone at night can be helpful. Unless I am misunderstanding...

 

[Rivercats]

In any light plants utilize CO2 to aid in photosynthesis and growth not just high light. The higher the light the more CO2 is needed. Plants use CO2 during the day that fish expire.

 

[GodFan]

In any light plants utilize CO2 to aid in photosynthesis and growth not just high light. The higher the light the more CO2 is needed. Plants use CO2 during the day that fish expire.

Ok yea I just thought I dont know lol

 

[BillD]

I wouldn't use an airstone if you have submerged aquatic plants also as you want the CO2 in the water for them. That is why we run CO2 during the day in our planted tanks.

This is questionable. If you have a heavily planted tank, that does not have CO2 injection, the plants can consume all or most of the CO2 very quickly when lights are on. The use of an air stone will actually add CO2 to the water not reduce it. The level of CO2 in the water will be in equilibrium with the concentration in the air. The air stone will help with gas exchange by moving the water. As well, at night, when all those plants are consuming oxygen, the moving water and ensuing gas exchange will keep oxygen levels from dropping.
An injected system is different, as an attempt is made to have abnormally high levels of CO2 which an air stone might undermine.

 

[Rivercats]

Actually, an airstone can make the water have the maximum amount of CO2 it can absorb from the air which is about 4 or 5 parts per million if memory serves (at least it's around that). If a tank has less CO2 than that, an airstone will add CO2. If the tank has more CO2, it will remove CO2 and lower it down to 4 to 5 ppm. Plus the CO2 coming from fish respiration has to be factored in. More fish (size matters)-more respiration-more CO2. So in truth an airstone can be a double edged sword depending on how much CO2 is in your water to start. I haven't used airstones since the 80's in any of my planted tanks, whether they use pressurized CO2 or not.

 

[mariano999]

9 months with 150 gallon tank. Minimun water change 15% every 2 months and doing great!

 

[GodFan]

9 months with 150 gallon tank. Minimun water change 15% every 2 months and doing great!

Very cool!

 

[Flear]

always one reason or another to join a new aquarium forum, ... in this case, this thread was it.

the initial link for building a self-sustaining is, i think it is overly simplified to a point it will not work.

Godfan mentioned about the need for emersed plants.

what counts as emersed plants ?
-aquatic plants growing above the water line ?
-non-aquatic plants growing out of the water with their roots submerged ?

what do these plants absorb others don't ?

... i've been looking into this for over a year & half, oddly the biggest problem i am coming across is obtaining specific critters that are not found at a LFS, and online is ... well no online fish store either, ... biology science supply store for schools is the only source, and they've not got everything i'm after either.

... nutrient cycles and substrate mixes are very difficult to find information on that will not result in nutrient deficiencies over long periods of time (biology science text books on wetlands ecologies)

... in the hobby, nutrient and fertilizer mixes seem to be based on ensuring minimums (which over any length of time creates deficiencies) or providing excesses that require water changes to prevent toxic buildup levels

---

there have been a few significant areas that just don't provide me enough to be comfortable starting an experiment that says "only top up water".

and a constant source of random bits of information that provide additional areas to look into on what would make it work

-such as growing emersed plants
what plants ?
why these plants ?
what do they do for the water ?

Edit:
am a fan and inspired by tom's bucket of mud too
sadly i have not followed it in 9 months or so ... last i heard a g/f started feeding the fish and he commened about how he could no longer call it 'self-sustaining'

 

[GodFan]

always one reason or another to join a new aquarium forum, ... in this case, this thread was it.

the initial link for building a self-sustaining is, i think it is overly simplified to a point it will not work.

Godfan mentioned about the need for emersed plants.

what counts as emersed plants ?
-aquatic plants growing above the water line ?
-non-aquatic plants growing out of the water with their roots submerged ?

what do these plants absorb others don't ?

... i've been looking into this for over a year & half, oddly the biggest problem i am coming across is obtaining specific critters that are not found at a LFS, and online is ... well no online fish store either, ... biology science supply store for schools is the only source, and they've not got everything i'm after either.

... nutrient cycles and substrate mixes are very difficult to find information on that will not result in nutrient deficiencies over long periods of time (biology science text books on wetlands ecologies)

... in the hobby, nutrient and fertilizer mixes seem to be based on ensuring minimums (which over any length of time creates deficiencies) or providing excesses that require water changes to prevent toxic buildup levels

---

there have been a few significant areas that just don't provide me enough to be comfortable starting an experiment that says "only top up water".

and a constant source of random bits of information that provide additional areas to look into on what would make it work

-such as growing emersed plants
what plants ?
why these plants ?
what do they do for the water ?

Edit:
am a fan and inspired by tom's bucket of mud too
sadly i have not followed it in 9 months or so ... last i heard a g/f started feeding the fish and he commened about how he could no longer call it 'self-sustaining'

Its been awhile lol Actually I have a tank that has had maybe 2 or 3 small water changes in 6 months. The key really is a nutrient absorbing (ie dirt) substrate, plants, and low bioload. I dont think emmersed are necessary anymore either.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Flear]

for nutrient absorbing, ... that was easy to solve.

nutrient cycles (for mulm and detritus in the substrate) brings about a whole different situation.

nutrients don't always cycle without an environment to ensure everything can go round and round



so frustrating to watch plants start to go yellow, and the yellow gets more and more significant

i think it's sulfur deficiency
everyone says that's not likely

i still think it's sulfur deficiency

sulfur has a very long nutrient cycle, and require anoxic zones in the substrate to return the sulfur to a form the plants can use

due to how long it takes sulfur to round it's cycle, more sulfur is needed to compensate

i'm just started looking into this (not just sulfur - but all 20 some nutrients, ... so little is written, and almost nothing in the hobby is written at all

---

i could go on and on here about what i am doing, looking into, problems i've come across in research for self-sustaining ideas, ... it's like even in nature understanding this is still in it's infancy

but i do know the best way to keep greenwater i have

dried & crushed plant clippings, ... as they break down (till there's no longer an ammonia spike) this will sustain greenwater indefinitely it seems (it simply does not crash) - sure i may have gotten lucky.

GodFan, following you're link here:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/self-sustaining-tank-setup-234685.html

there is so much i would do differently than what you suggested in your first post, ...

after ... well approaching near 2 years looking into this now (so far all theory while watching my tank without water changes) ...

there's a few issues i am stumbling with

as i red your first post from that thread you started, ... i would do so much differently

---

my idea for self-sustaining isn't limited to 2 weeks, i'm aiming for 10 years, over 3 generations of fish (3 year life-span)

plants are the hardest part ... well next to nutrients themselves

what plants do you pick that won't suck up the nutrients that the fish can't eat to return those nutrients back to the substrate ???

i've settled on the florida flagfish, which poses it's own problems due to small size, ... small size of mouth poses problems on plants that are too big for it to take a bite out of.

but don't want to go to a larger fish for worry on needing that much larger of a main tank.