Sick Betta, have already had two deaths...

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AquaJoe

Aquarium Advice Freak
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
245
Location
Alberta, Canada
1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the best of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).

The type of fish is a female betta. She appears to be bloated and very, very tired. She is lingering around the bottom of the tank and I don't ever see her eat. She seems to "lay down" on the rock bed and generally by a decoration or something that she can lean on. I wonder if she is not capable of remaining uprite by herself. She appears to be having enormous trouble breathing. As I watch her breath her chest expands and contracts unlike anything I have ever seen exhibited by a betta -aside from the last two that died (one male, one female). As she breaths her mouth opens and closes, this is very noticable as she opens her mouth quite wide; it appears as though she is gasping. there is no body fungus or external parasites that I can see.

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.

I have not checked the parameters lately but I know they are in wack. The temperature is a constant 82 degrees F.

Please don't bash me for not testing within the past couple of weeks. I know where the parameters should be and yes, they are fine.

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?

20 US gallons, roughly 13 months.

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.

Aquatech 20-40.

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?

10 fish in total.

1 pleco 4-4.5"
3 tetras 1-1.5" each
2 iridescent shark cat fish 4.5-5" each
2 bala sharks 3-3.5" each
1 male betta 3"
1 female betta 2.5-3"

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?

Yesterday I did a 50% PWC, changed the AC filter, cleaned the filter's impeller system.
I try to do a PWC at least every 3 weeks, at most 4 weeks. I vacuum the gravel every time do a water change.
I replace the AC filter every 30 days.
I give a cycle dose every week to two weeks depending on water parameters.

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?

Roughly six months.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?

*YES. PLEASE READ A COUPLE OF POSTS DOWN.

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?

All food is manufactured by Wardley:
-Krill (not often, fed as an ocassional treat)
-Betta Premium Food
-Tropical Premium Flakes
-Algae Discs

Please help :-/

When giving me advice, please keep in mind that I have a snail in the tank as well.

Joe

*information was updated
 
AquaJoe said:
Please don't bash me for not testing within the past couple of weeks. I know where the parameters should be and yes, they are fine.

No offense, but if you have not tested, there is no way to know for certain that they are 'fine'.

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?

10 fish in total.

1 pleco 4-4.5"
3 tetras 1-1.5" each
2 iridescent shark cat fish 4.5-5" each
2 bala sharks 3-3.5" each
1 male betta 3"
1 female betta 2.5-3"

Well, to begin with, your tank is overstocked, particularly with 'big' fish [iridescent sharks (eventually 40"+), balas (to 14"), pleco (to 30")]....all of which are potential aggressors to the bettas and tetras.

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?

Yesterday I did a 50% PWC, changed the AC filter, cleaned the filter's impeller system.
I try to do a PWC at least every 3 weeks, at most 4 weeks. I vacuum the gravel every time do a water change.
I replace the AC filter every 30 days.

The filter you have is really not up to the tank (despite manufacturer's claims), and certainly not up to the current bioload. Your PWCs should be done every 5-7 days...every 3 weeks is far too long.

I give a cycle dose every week to two weeks depending on water parameters.

Don't bother...Cycle is a waste if time and money.

Please help :-/

Could be a number of things, including dropsy and egg-binding....but I am willing to bet that your water conditions may well be a factor.
 
Parameters are as follows:
(readings taken within the past 10 minutes)
NH3/NH4: 0-0.25 PPM
Ph: 6.8-7.0

I am pretty sure that is fine. You're opinion does not offend me. I will be re-testing again this evening to be sure of my results.

I know how big Iridescents can get. Sadly I did not know this before I bought them at WalMart where the tag says they grow to no more then 12". Same goes for the pleco and my balas. I am going to be buying a bigger tank in the near future. I am having a very hard time finding anything over 29 gallons.

I will try my best to do more frequent PWC. I was aware of my high bioload but didn't think it was THAT high. When I get the bigger tank the filter I have will do just fine, in my opinion, as my current aquarium will then house only bettas and tetras. Perhaps I will be able to buy a new filter with the money I'll be saving on Cycle :wink:






Care to make a suggestion about what action should be taken? Should I treat? Should I euthanize? Thanks in advance.

Tortis, I would like you to know that I very highly value your opinion.

Joe
 
It just dawned on me that I added a piece of driftwood (from the Atlantic ocean) about 3 months ago. It was bleach treated and soaked many, many times in very hot water afterword. I do not think it is the problem but for the sake of this thread I shall include that information.

Joe
 
I would start with daily 30%-50% water changes for 3-4 days....even with low ammonia (not sure about your nitrate and nitrite) it will make a difference (then keep up 30% chhanges every 5-7 days). Getting a better filter (like an AquaClear 30 or AC 70) will also make a difference (run it with just sponges or sponges plus bio-max). And you really need to lower your tank's bioload ASAP. Aside from that, I would just observe for the next 2-3 days....preferably in a small quarantine tank, if possible.
 
Thank you Tortis. I will be looking into getting another filter ASAP. Same goes for a new aquarium for my cats and balas. If there are any links you might want to give me to forward me to some good deals on the filters you suggested please feel more then welcome to contribute them.

Are you suggesting that I replace my filter all together or or you suggesting I use another filter in addition to my current one?

Joe
 
Use the two filters cincurrently for at least 7-10 days to allow the new one to become established, then it should be fine on its own. As far as links go, not much I can suggest, especially near you, but these chaps may have some suggestions:
http://ecas.cheapo.cc/forum/index.php
 
Thank you Torits.

I am still open to suggestions people. Please, if you have any idea what might be the problem (asside from what I am currently addressing) please make a post.

Joe
 
I just suggest daily PWC's 20-30% until water parameters are back into shape. Also, I second the idea for new filtration. As for the overstocking problem, you have a couple options there. You could take fish back to your LFS, move them to another tank, or ask around and see if anyone would like to take any off of your hands. I hope this helps you out.
 
thank you Beave. Unfortunetly I do not have an LFS and I have the biggest aquarium out of anyone I know :(

I am going to do another PWC today, she sems to be feeling a bit better.... Maybe I over-reacted? I don't blame myself though.... I have already had two deaths :(

I am going to buy a filter online.

Joe
 
The male and female betta is housed together? Do they fight at all? I would think that they would not get along. It dosn't sound like such would be the cause but I would be careful with housing a male betta with a female betta. He could possibly be harrassing her.
 
He is a WalMart rescue. I had to take him and yes, he is slightly aggressive however he is fine the vast majority of the time. That comes with the territory and it would be no different for them in the wild, aside from the fact that he likely would not see the same female twice! ;)

I appreciate your input :) Thank you.

Joe
 
Toirtis said:
Getting a better filter (like an AquaClear 30 or AC 70) will also make a difference (run it with just sponges or sponges plus bio-max).

Are you sure a 70 is the apropriate model Tortis? That moves 300 GPH and is aparently meant for a 70 gallon tank. Is that not overkill or is that what I need? I am a few clicks away from buying it.

Joe
 
It would give you a turn over of 15 gph. A little more than recommended for a HOB (10 gph), but you have a high bioload. Also if you upgrade you may still be able to use it.
 
AquaJoe said:
Toirtis said:
Getting a better filter (like an AquaClear 30 or AC 70) will also make a difference (run it with just sponges or sponges plus bio-max).

Are you sure a 70 is the apropriate model Tortis? That moves 300 GPH and is aparently meant for a 70 gallon tank. Is that not overkill or is that what I need? I am a few clicks away from buying it.

Joe

Not at all...and that flow-rate is adjustable, too.
 
Sick Betta

I noticed you have both a male and female betta in the same tank... the males can be extremely aggressive towards their ladies as well as other males. At 20 gal, your tank may not be big enough for her to get away from him. I would take the female out and place her in a bowl by herself (I prefer a minimum size of 2 gallons... NOT a little jar or cup!!!!!) containing conditioned water (be sure and add a little aquarium salt.) You will need to change the water in the bowl each week. I keep a 3 gallon jug of water ready to go. It's aged, and since I keep it in the same room as the Betta tank, the temps match.
When I've had a betta feeling "poorly", I've had good luck with "Betta Fix Remedy". It's manufactured by Aquarium Phamaceuticals Inc, and you can get it at Petsmart
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Fern281, if I were you I would never use "Betta Fix" ever again. It contains melaleuca which, over time, destroys the labyrinth organ.

I have had one death related to the use of Betta "FIX". Even the name drives me nuts. I called AP Inc. and had a talk with one of their "tech support/supervisor" people and gave him hell over it. What more can I do?

Like I said. I suggest never using it again. Just my .02

Joe
 
Even a female Betta can be aggressive toward a male Betta.. actually give him quite a haircut (or "fincut" lol)... Also, female bettas act that way after theyve mated.

PS. Bettafix is the exact same thing as Melafix and although Ive never used it steadily on a Betta, it worked great for my once owned goldfish.
 
SilverDragon said:
Even a female Betta can be aggressive toward a male Betta.. actually give him quite a haircut (or "fincut" lol)... Also, female bettas act that way after theyve mated.

I have whitnesed this aggression first hand. My last male betta, Jesus (RIP), died of what I think was old age. He slowly shut down over time, physically that is. I watched him die for weeks. Possibly three in total, I was really hoping he would get better and could not bring myself to euthenise him. Maybe I am over sensitive or maybe he could have gotten better. Anyway, I am getting away from my point. When he was too sick to function as what I would describe as "normal" one of my females ate his fins. Literally, all of his fins. She nipped at him the entire time he was sick and not at all defensive; but when he got REALLY sick she at them off rite to where his body began. It was a shame.

Anyway. Yes, I know female bettas can be aggressive towards male bettas and viceversa.

Joe
 
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