spawn

[Andy Sager]

ok everyone just take a step back and a long deep breath. im not putting anyones credentials on the line and not holding anyone accountable cause in the end of taking in all the knowledge, its still my call on what i do. all i wanted to know was is it safe to change the water, which i did. the only reason i did was because the water looked a little murky to me. i did my reading: nitrites-0 nitrates-.25 ( i might have mixed those up, still kinda new ) ph-7.8 ammonia-0. now is that stable? that was before the water change. i also put in the foam filter which btw they are loving. if i messed anything up and the eggs dont hatch, ill take it as learning and hope for the best at the next one. i dont want to go off topic cause i really dont want to get shut down. i want to soak up all i can get from you guys. Andy: my lfs is a mom and pop store not a big named company. i live in a small town and the only places to get fish are my lfs and wal-mart......i wont even get started on them! he is an amazing guy and knows his stuff.

This is a good attitude to have and please don't think that any of us are not trying to help you. It just seems that there are 2 generations of fish keepers on this thread.

For me, it sounds like you have the right person to ask in the shop you got your fish at. If you are a beginner, this is a good thing.

Nice pics, BTW. Now on to the Hatching!!!

Keep us posted

 

[k.mascher86]

i dont think that at all. i just disnt want an epic battle of different opinions to rage out! judging by the pic......how much longer do you think? and what will i feed fry? my lfs owner takes hard boiled egg yolk and mashes it up and puts it in the freezer. anyone heard of that?

 

[Andy Sager]

That's because you don't just give someone helpful information, you also tend to add in a comment that there's lots of ways to do something, but based on your knowledge/experience or whatever that your way is superior. We all think our ways are the best, that's why we choose to do them. We are welcome to disagree here, but when communicating in a group setting it helps to avoid doing so in a demeaning manner to others.

At risk of what? Getting sucked up against the prefilter? I've used this setup many times and have never seen fry that could not get away from the prefilter.

Okay, In the effort of keeping this short and ending this portion of the thread, I would like to say that I believe you are talking to the wrong person. I don't ever recall saying that my way is the ONLY way or that I am a superior fish keeper than anyone else on this site. I do recall having it out publicly with another moderator when I was told things that I knew to either not be true, not experienced or were not applicable in a home aquarium and I apologized for doing this in the public forum. I do recall saying that my methods have a proven track record of success and as I mentioned in my last comment to you, have the references to prove it. You can take that as conceeded if you'd like but that was not my intention. How else does one know how or why a poster posts what they do? I use my experiences and results as my reference. As I posted before, if you want to know information about a subject, would you prefer to get that info from somebody who has the experience or someone who is still learning? If it's my money, I want the experienced person's opinion first and formost.

Re your statement about the filter I left in the quote, the following are emails I recieved from someone from this site that I am privately mentoring with breeding his fish:
6/8/12
The filter i have in the tank with the wrigglers at the moment was a sponge filter with a power head on it, but i cant slow the power head down thats why i had stocking covering the intake and foam sponge covering the outtake.


6/8/12
Oh the parents had moved a few, a little too close to the filter outlet and they got jammed in the sponge. I removed the sponge as i kept seeing babies get caught in it. Will the current kill them?


6/13/12

The babies are spreading all over the tank this morning. I woke up and no clusters anywhere. I think my filtration is waaaay too strong now as there were 10 or so stuck to the intake. But as u say, without the right working equipment im bound to lose some

So yes, getting sucked into the filter. The air driven sponge filter removes this possibility.
________________________________________________________________________

So to put an end to this head butting, I'm just going to say that I know that there are more ways to do things when it comes to fish keeping than just my way and I don't know everything there is to know. Ideologies of fish keeping may be different these days but lack of understanding of the ecology of the fish tank seems rampant based on the other threads on the site. What I do know, and explain in detail, is what I have accomplished in the past 40+ years of fish keeping which today's hobbyists might find useful while trying to acheive what I have already acheived. You can agree with it, disagree with it or argue it to death. You asked for examples or Data in your other post and I gave them to you. You don't want to follow up with them, that's your choice. That sounds to me like it's you with the superior attitude. Maybe I'm mistaken.
As for accountability, is anyone here on this site offering to reimburse a fellow AAer for their loses due to their misinformation? A reputable fish store will and does. And that's my point regarding websites, even this one, where there is no accountability, other than words and apologies, for bad advice. You can agree, disagree or argue it to death. Maybe it's a generational thing but I'm done with this topic.

I'd like to put an end to this now and say that if you would like to continue this conversation, you too should start another thread. This is about helping the OP with this spawn of fish.

 

[Wy Renegade]

So in the interest of helping the OP be successful with spawning their fish, lets make sure we get the correct information out there. Frequent water changes (provided they are done correctly) are in no way, shape or form going to harm your fry. Andy is quite correct in that back in the day we used to kill lots of fish by doing frequent water changes. However, that was because we didn't understand how to do them properly, we didn't understand the importance of matching things like pH and temperature. Anybody who has done frequent water changes vs. infrequent ones knows the differences in these two ideologies first hand. My aquarium may survive with infrequent water changes, but it thrives with frequent ones. As Andy pointed out, important substances (generally referred to as minerals and trace minerals) are in the water column and are constantly be absorbed and used (i.e. depleted) by the life in the water ( including the fish). These substances need to be replaced in order allow the organisms in our closed systems to thrive. The old ideology that water doesn't wear out therefore it doesn't need replaced only works if you are somehow replace those lost minerals and trace minerals - that means dosing! Its much cheaper and generally much safer to simply do frequent water changes, just make sure you are doing them correctly by dechlorinating the water and match temperature and pH with the water in the tank.

 

[k.mascher86]

success!!!! i came home from work and this is what i found



when do they start free swimming?
what do i feed them?

 

[jetajockey]

Okay, In the effort of keeping this short and ending this portion of the thread, I would like to say that I believe you are talking to the wrong person. I don't ever recall saying that my way is the ONLY way or that I am a superior fish keeper than anyone else on this site. I do recall having it out publicly with another moderator when I was told things that I knew to either not be true, not experienced or were not applicable in a home aquarium and I apologized for doing this in the public forum. I do recall saying that my methods have a proven track record of success and as I mentioned in my last comment to you, have the references to prove it. You can take that as conceeded if you'd like but that was not my intention. How else does one know how or why a poster posts what they do? I use my experiences and results as my reference. As I posted before, if you want to know information about a subject, would you prefer to get that info from somebody who has the experience or someone who is still learning? If it's my money, I want the experienced person's opinion first and formost.

Re your statement about the filter I left in the quote, the following are emails I recieved from someone from this site that I am privately mentoring with breeding his fish:
6/8/12
The filter i have in the tank with the wrigglers at the moment was a sponge filter with a power head on it, but i cant slow the power head down thats why i had stocking covering the intake and foam sponge covering the outtake.

6/8/12
Oh the parents had moved a few, a little too close to the filter outlet and they got jammed in the sponge. I removed the sponge as i kept seeing babies get caught in it. Will the current kill them?

6/13/12

The babies are spreading all over the tank this morning. I woke up and no clusters anywhere. I think my filtration is waaaay too strong now as there were 10 or so stuck to the intake. But as u say, without the right working equipment im bound to lose some

So yes, getting sucked into the filter. The air driven sponge filter removes this possibility.
________________________________________________________________________

So to put an end to this head butting, I'm just going to say that I know that there are more ways to do things when it comes to fish keeping than just my way and I don't know everything there is to know. Ideologies of fish keeping may be different these days but lack of understanding of the ecology of the fish tank seems rampant based on the other threads on the site. What I do know, and explain in detail, is what I have accomplished in the past 40+ years of fish keeping which today's hobbyists might find useful while trying to acheive what I have already acheived. You can agree with it, disagree with it or argue it to death. You asked for examples or Data in your other post and I gave them to you. You don't want to follow up with them, that's your choice. That sounds to me like it's you with the superior attitude. Maybe I'm mistaken.
As for accountability, is anyone here on this site offering to reimburse a fellow AAer for their loses due to their misinformation? A reputable fish store will and does. And that's my point regarding websites, even this one, where there is no accountability, other than words and apologies, for bad advice. You can agree, disagree or argue it to death. Maybe it's a generational thing but I'm done with this topic.

I'd like to put an end to this now and say that if you would like to continue this conversation, you too should start another thread. This is about helping the OP with this spawn of fish.

I agreed with you that sponge filtration is ideal, but I've not run a powerhead in a breeding tank. The point I was making was regarding the viability of using a prefilter sponge though, not water current.

I don't think my methods are superior to yours at all. And if you think mine are faulty you are welcome to call them out directly or indirectly, but just be aware that if you do then it helps to have substantive proof to validate your point. That'd be for my benefit as well as others because if I'm misleading people I'd like to know it and correct myself. Citing your experience helps but when offering a contrary viewpoint it's going to take more than that to defend your position. Lots of people here have been doing this for years or decades as you have , and as I'm sure you know, time doesn't necessarily equate to intelligence.

If you honestly believe there's no accountability in this forum then it's a disservice to the many people here who do strive to give good advice and practices.

I'll leave it at that, and I'm well aware of whose thread this is and how the forum works, but thanks for letting me know I can make a new thread.

 

[jetajockey]

success!!!! i came home from work and this is what i found

when do they start free swimming?
what do i feed them?

They should start free swimming in 2-3 days. Once free swimming jd fry are big enough to eat newly hatched bbs. I prefer live foods but you can also use prepared fry food, powdered flake or pellets in a pinch.

I suggest getting a medicine dropper to spot feed as well.

 

[k.mascher86]

i got a thing of micro works from the owner of my lfs

 

[jetajockey]

I like microworms, they are easy to maintain a culture of. They are very small though so while the JD fry will be fine eating them for a few days, I would definitely supplement with a prepared food or larger live food like BBS.