Stress Zyme?

[jmcbubbles]

I've just learned about cycling the tank, after populating it with 7 neon tetras and losing one (fingers crossed the others are okay when I get home from work!), so I have to get that sorted immediately.

I heard that Stress Zyme is good for getting the cycle going in the aquarium, but I thought I'd come here and ask the experts before running off to buy it! If not, how do I sort out the cycling of the tank at this point (apart from PWCs)?

 

[malkore]

Don't waste your time. Stress Zyme is not a very effective product, speaking from experience.

It may help you get through the ammonia spike a day or two sooner, but it doesn't appear to affect the nitrite spike at all, and that's the longer phase.

If you really want something that could work, look for Bio Spira. Its the only thing that's been proven to work, but it can still fail to work. It should be stored cold. If its sitting out on a shelf don't buy it, as it won't work. it must be kept refridgerated.

*edit*

As for what to do besides PWC...nothing, other than returning all the fish and doing a fishless cycle. That's it. Fishless cycle, Try to use bio spira, or deal with daily water changes around 50-75% to keep ammonia from hitting toxic levels...ditto for nitrites.

A tank can take up to 8 weeks to cycle, but typically it averages 4-6 weeks.

 

[7Enigma]

I'll second malkore.

Try to take the fish back and explain you need a couple weeks before you can take them (go to the store FIRST and ask or call, don't bring the fish IN to the store). If they will take them back your all set. You already have some of the bacteria in the tank from the fish waste, you can just go out and buy some ammonia (pure ammonia with no additives, if you shake it make sure it doesn't foam) and dose with that. You will finish your cycle FASTER than if you had fish in there.

If they won't take them back, ask if they will give you some filter material from one of their tanks or some gravel (these will have a good amount of bacteria on it). If you get gravel from the tank keep it wet in some of their tank water, and post on here and we will help you get the most out of it.

If they won't do that at least get a test kit for ammonia, nitrIte, and nitrAte and monitor it (liquid kit is the best, but strips are better than nothing). Your going to get some big muscles doing PWC's everyday for the next couple of weeks.

What size tank is this? Do you have Prime or some other dechlorinator? Do you have any live plants in the tank?

Those tetras are not super waste producers, so you don't have the same problem as someone who bought a bunch of goldfish or other "dirty" fish.

Here's a couple recommendations I'd do. All of these are useless without constant PWC's whenever you levels go above 0.25 or 0.5-1.0 at the highest (not recommended) for ammonia or nitrIte.

If you use Prime, put in a double dose. This is safe for the fish (don't aim the capful AT a fish ) and will bind up some ammonia.

Feed your tetras once every other day or once every 3 days. Make sure what you feed them gets eaten (ie none sinking to the bottom), and take a note for next time if you have to feed them less or more. Always air on the side of too little food during this cycle process.

Think about getting a couple of live plants that require low light. Anacharis and java moss are two great ones since they can float in the tank and absorb ammonia through the leaves (instead of roots). These won't be able to absorb all the ammonia, but should be able to help a bit. Keep your tank light on for at least 8 hours a day. The plants shouldn't need more than this, and you risk getting an algae or diatom (brown algae) infestation with more light.

That's about all I can think of, but its the PWC's that matter the most. You could do nothing I've recommended except the PWC's and your fish will probably do alright, but every little bit helps! Goodluck.

justin

 

[jmcbubbles]

Hi guys,

Since posting this I have done a liquid test and all the parameters are normal - no ammonia or nitrite and a nitrate level of under 10mg/l. Someone else mentioned that this probably means that the cycle hasn't started yet, so would I not be okay if I keep monitoring the ammonia levels and doing PWCs when they reach 0.25?

The tank is 15gal it's a Juwel Rekord 70. I've been using Stress Coat to remove the chlorine from the water. I do have one plant it's an Echinodorus Bleheri and I keep the light on 9 hours a day (I don't know the wattage).

I'll be honest and admit I'd rather not bring the fish back to the lfs - I have become kind of attached to them at this stage and would also hate to think that I'm taking a step backwards, if you know what I mean. So unless you think that I really really should take them back, would I not be able to do what I've said and run the cycle with them in there?

Given all this additional info, what do ya think? Should I get more plants even if the ammonia level at the moment is non-existent? Will that not slow the bacteria growth if they absorb the ammonia?

 

[jcarlilesiu]

Any ammonia that needs to be absorbed is "left overs" and toxic. It is possible to complete a cycle with out seeing any raise in ammonia if you have exactly the right amount consistantly in the tank through-out the cycle. This is nearly impossible, if not completely.

 

[7Enigma]

I would temporarily stop using Stresszyme. Monitor your readings and see how they behave. You have a pretty big tank for the small amount of bioload (fish waste). You should be able to get away with PWC's every other day or so and still stay below 0.25ppm ammonia and nitrIte. Keep watching both values though, as the plant will use some of the ammonia (this does not get converted to nitrIte), but once your bacteria begin to buildup you may see a small spike of nitrIte.

I don't think you need to take the fish back, if this was a really small tank (like a 2 or 5 gallon), it might be a good idea.

I would still recommend reduced feedings (once every other or every 3 days), and make sure they eat all you feed them.

As for adding more plants, I would wait to see what happens when you stop using Stresszyme. If you start to see your numbers routinely going above 0.25 in a day or 2 I would get another plant or two (preferably one that I recommended due to light requirement and amount of ammonia uptake), and continue the PWC's. If your levels are still undetectable, AND you plan on not adding more fish, you might never see a typical cycle (but take note of the next sentence).

If you do plan on adding more fish I'd wait a couple of weeks with increased feedings (once a day, or 1/2 normal food twice a day) and monitor. This will increase the amount of ammonia they release into the water and you will need to see if the bacteria and plant(s) can absorb the extra waste. Once you again see no detectable levels of ammonia and nitrIte, your good to add more fish....but when you add the new fish I'd again go to less frequent feeding until additional bacteria have multiplied.

So I forgot I had the Big Al's page still up in one of my windows and reread the description:

"Contains 100 million live bacteria per teaspoonful. Helps keep a naturally balanced aquarium by eliminating sludge build-up. Prevents ammonia and nitrite poisoning, low oxygen levels and low ph . Use when setting up and once a week maintaining an aquarium."

I highlighted the important part of that description. I would hope this stresszyme was using a buffered system, but it very well might just be mildly basic. If you have been adding a lot of that to the tank if might be increasing the pH up to that 9 level. I'm still VERY interested in what your tap water readings are. If your tap is around 7-8, then I'd wager its the Stresszyme that is causing the high pH.

 

[jmcbubbles]

I haven' t been using the Stress Zyme at all, I only learned all about the cycle in the last couple of days, and a friend said that she used Stress Zyme and it has the bacteria and stuff already, so I thought I'd check here before buying it. So it has never been used in the water, the only product I have used is Stress Coat.

7Enigma, sorry I'm a bit confused, you recommended reduced feedings and then said if I want more fish to increase the feedings - I definitely do want more fish, I just got the tetras to start the tank off, I was planning on getting some tiger barbs this weekend, although that's obviously not happening now til the tank is sorted. So if I do want to get more, should I start increasing the feedings at this point? Or wait? If the water levels are the way they are with no Stress Zyme then surely shouldn't I start slowly increasing the feedings and monitor the levels? I've been feeding them once a day up til now. So what do you think?

 

[7Enigma]

I haven' t been using the Stress Zyme at all, I only learned all about the cycle in the last couple of days, and a friend said that she used Stress Zyme and it has the bacteria and stuff already, so I thought I'd check here before buying it. So it has never been used in the water, the only product I have used is Stress Coat.

7Enigma, sorry I'm a bit confused, you recommended reduced feedings and then said if I want more fish to increase the feedings - I definitely do want more fish, I just got the tetras to start the tank off, I was planning on getting some tiger barbs this weekend, although that's obviously not happening now til the tank is sorted. So if I do want to get more, should I start increasing the feedings at this point? Or wait? If the water levels are the way they are with no Stress Zyme then surely shouldn't I start slowly increasing the feedings and monitor the levels? I've been feeding them once a day up til now. So what do you think?

OK, I just read up on Stress Coat, and I'd stop using that (what frequency and how much have you been using?). I'm wondering if the aloe vera thats in it is causing the high pH. You need a dechlorinator to remove the chlorine and chloramines that are probably present in your tap water. If you do a water change without using a dechlor prior to putting the water in the tank you will kill the beneficial bacteria and might kill the fish. I highly recommend Prime, but many many products remove chlorine.

Sorry if my comment about the feedings and adding fish was confusing. I'll try to explain it more fully.

Your tank can only take a certain bioload (waste) at any given time. You feed more than normal, you risk increased ammonia and nitrIte levels. You add more fish, you risk increased ammonia and nitrIte levels. If you lower feeding to every other or every 3 days, you reduce the amount of ammonia and nitrIte levels*. If you remove or some of the fish die, you reduce the amount of ammonia and nitrIte levels*. Obvious right?

OK, now say you have your tetras in there and you are feeding once a day, but now you want to add your tiger barbs. You know by adding the tiger barbs you will be increasing the bioload of the tank, and it will take some time for the bacteria to grow large enough so that no ammonia and nitrIte are present in the tank. You can do this 3 ways:

1. Get tiger barbs, continue feeding normally, watch levels and do PWC when ammonia and nitrIte get above 0.25ppm

2. Get tiger barbs, cut feeding to every other or every 3 days, watch levels and do PWC when ammonia and nitrIte get above 0.25ppm

3. Prior to getting tiger barbs increase feedings (maybe twice a day, but ONLY what the fish can eat in a couple of minutes so that none goes to the bottom), then a day or two before getting the barbs cut back feeding to every other or every 3 days, get tiger barbs, and continue on the lessened feedings until your ammonia and nitrIte levels are undetectable. Like always, anytime the ammonia or nitrIte get above 0.25ppm, do a PWC with fresh dechlorinated water.

Now this is my opinion, but in order of preference for both YOUR work, and for the health of the fish, I would do #3 first, with #2, then #1 as a last resort. My reasoning is that by increasing feedings before getting the barbs, you are in essence giving the bacteria a false higher bioload, so they will multiply to greater numbers than they could have sustained on just the every day feeding. Then when cutting back on feeding a day or two before you get the tiger barbs you are lessening the bioload in the tank, so that when you get the new fish you are buffered a little bit since there is more bacteria present. This way, there is less of a chance that the levels will get above 0.25ppm. They still probably will, but you will have a longer time to catch it and do a PWC.

 

[jmcbubbles]

Okay I totally understand now. What you've explained is pretty much what I was thinking, but just wasn't sure. I've learned a lot over the last few days and it's a lot of information to process! You've explained it perfectly, thanks loads.

Yes I will do what you have advised, I'll increase the feeding of the tetras for the next while and keep monitoring the water. I'm going to get the AP test kit after work today as it is much more accurate than the kit I have at home, so I'll see what the levels are looking like this evening. I'm in no rush to get the barbs anyway, I'd rather have everything sorted out and settled before bringing them in, no point rushing into it and killing them! Besides, the tetras are entertaining enough on their own

WRT the Stress Coat I'll go get another dechlorinator this evening as well. I thought Stress Coat was pretty much used standardly but obviously not?? I haven't used very much, just 2 small teaspoons in the tank when I filled it, and I haven't actually done a PWC since getting tetras last Sunday. I was going to, but when I saw that the levels were okay yesterday, I didn't think it was urgent, and to be honest it was getting late and I was too lazy and sleepy

I also haven't tested the pH level of the tap water yet but will check that when I get home and again tomorrow morning on a sample I'll leave out tonight and then if the pH is high in the tap water, we can figure out a way to bring it down naturally.

Phew, so many details! I actually bought this tank for my boyfriend as an anniversary present and I'm more into the whole thing than he is!

 

[7Enigma]

And don't worry that you didn't do PWC's. Since you tested (even if the test kit was not that accurate), you did the best you could and made a logical conclusion that a PWC was not necessary (I would have made the same decision btw). Again, you don't have a high bioload in the tank with the few tetras so it is very possible you never had an ammonia spike like some see when they put a lot of fish in quickly.

With the extra feeding, you might see the ammonia or nitrIte start to creep up depending on your bacterial populations, but this is a GOOD thing, since you can wait and get the extra bacteria BEFORE adding in more fish.

 

[jmcbubbles]

Yep. Okay thanks so much I finally understand whats going on in the tank, I really appreciate the advice.

One more quick question - there is some food debris at the bottom of the tank (just a small bit), which has been there for a couple of days. I was going to clean it but then had second thoughts as I figured that would bring up the ammonia level as well, allowing the bacteria to multiply - especially as there isn't a high bioload with my little collection of teeny fish Was that an okay decision to make?

 

[7Enigma]

First thing is you appear to be overfeeding the fish. If the food is on the bottom and not being eaten, I'd lessen the amount AT feeding time so that it is all consumed. You can still feed twice a day, but just only give them what they can eat.

As for the food on the bottom, I would suck it out with a gravel filter. Your reasoning is good, but I'd rather have the fish eat more and release ammonia and waste, than have the food rot at the bottom (and make it cruddy). Both will have the same end result, but when you stop feeding the fish (if an ammonia spike were to happen) they will slow down producing waste. If you have food rotting on the bottom, its not quite as easy. Also when you go to add new fish, your old fish will have that much more energy stored (as fat?) so that they can handle the lessened feedings.

Honestly, as long as your watch your levels, you can do it either way. I'd just rather feed the fish that feed the bacteria, instead of directly feeding the bacteria by letting the food rot.

 

[jmcbubbles]

Okay, that's good enough for me. I have been feeding the fish smaller amounts the last day or 2 after learning about it on this forum, so the leftover food is from before that. I'll take that out this evening. Its funny though they seem to have trouble eating flakes off the surface of the water and then they all attack it when it's sinking and if any lands on the bottom they immediately ignore it and look for another bit on top. But I guess if I just break the flakes to a smaller size none will land on the gravel.

Thanks for all the advice 7Enigma, you've been such a great help