Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels

[Andy Sager]

Oh, by the way I don't see black velvet Angels anymore. I remember them when I was a kid, they kinda appeal me.
If I ever take a trip to Trinidad, l will be looking at Venezuela because the mouth of the Amazon river flows into the sea and I would like to go and see it, if I'm lucky to go.
My mom's brother used to trade with the native Indians for birds and fish back in the 50's, he was a collector of animals, I wish I had known him then too. But hey we got you Andy !!![emoji1]

Clem

Ok, this is my last post for this morning.
Black velvets were the pre cursers for the Double Darks. I remember them well. The problem was that they were fragile.....VERY fragile. So the Black Laces that were showing subdued stripes were bred with Golds to create a stripeless Black fish that hopefully would be stronger than the current Blacks. It's still a weaker fish than say, a Silver but these "new" blacks are hardier than the old Velvets. That's probably why you don't see them anymore.

As for a trip to Venezuela, grab me a few Angels from the river and you can drop them off here on your way home. ( Just watch out for the big Oscars and Peacock Bass there )

 

[livefishguy124]

i set up my fish room a couple days ago, haven't checked in on this thread since this tread was at 37 pages wow

 

[skylane]

Ok, this is my last post for this morning.
Black velvets were the pre cursers for the Double Darks. I remember them well. The problem was that they were fragile.....VERY fragile. So the Black Laces that were showing subdued stripes were bred with Golds to create a stripeless Black fish that hopefully would be stronger than the current Blacks. It's still a weaker fish than say, a Silver but these "new" blacks are hardier than the old Velvets. That's probably why you don't see them anymore.

As for a trip to Venezuela, grab me a few Angels from the river and you can drop them off here on your way home. ( Just watch out for the big Oscars and Peacock Bass there ) [emoji38]

Thank-you Andy for that piece of info. As I study more on the fish specie's, I find myself remembering more about about my youth and the types of fish that were available, amazing how Angels have evolved from their Amazon roots.
Yes Andy, I will bring you back some wilds, if I can meet the rite connections, but just to see them in a natural state would be mind boggling!!![emoji39]

But for those double blacks or velvet, I would love to get some of these if I can find them.[emoji6]


Clem

 

[Andy Sager]

Thank-you Andy for that piece of info. As I study more on the fish specie's, I find myself remembering more about about my youth and the types of fish that were available, amazing how Angels have evolved from their Amazon roots.
Yes Andy, I will bring you back some wilds, if I can meet the rite connections, but just to see them in a natural state would be mind boggling!!![emoji39]

But for those double blacks or velvet, I would love to get some of these if I can find them.[emoji6]


Clem

You could always make your own DDs. Just mix a Gold with a Black or Black Lace. The darker the Black is on the one you use, the greater the chance the offspring will be darker.

 

[Andy Sager]

Came back from dinner and bingo bango bongo, I have 3 new Angel spawns to play with. The only hiccup is that none of the pairs have yet to produce viable fry as of yet so I can't be too disappointed if these fail. Guess we'll know in about 10 days. Fingers crossed for now.

Hope everyone didn't eat too much turkey today.

 

[sinibotia]

Came back from dinner and bingo bango bongo, I have 3 new Angel spawns to play with. The only hiccup is that none of the pairs have yet to produce viable fry as of yet so I can't be too disappointed if these fail. Guess we'll know in about 10 days. Fingers crossed for now.

Hope everyone didn't eat too much turkey today.

I don't know about turkey, but my fry definitely had a thanksgiving brine shrimp feast... can't find any fry of any kind without a bright orange belly.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with more fish spawns today! hopefully these turn out better for you!

 

[sinibotia]

By the way, my angelfish fry tub has some kinda fuzz growing on the bottom. Any idea why? I removed most of the detritus and the growth is way too widespread to be growing on organic matter but it also looks saprolegnia-ish white rather than an algal sort of color. Should I be worried and remove it, or leave it as biofilm for the fry to munch on?

 

[PoppaRyno]

Unhatched fungused eggs maybe?

Sent from my LGLS991 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[sinibotia]

Unhatched fungused eggs maybe?

Sent from my LGLS991 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

I removed all but maybe a few, and this growth is covering the majority of the bottom of the tub. It doesn't seem to be bothering the fry but you know me, I'm a worrywart....

 

[Andy Sager]

By the way, my angelfish fry tub has some kinda fuzz growing on the bottom. Any idea why? I removed most of the detritus and the growth is way too widespread to be growing on organic matter but it also looks saprolegnia-ish white rather than an algal sort of color. Should I be worried and remove it, or leave it as biofilm for the fry to munch on?

Once the fry are free swimming, you should have a sponge filter in there and be siphoning out any dead food or fry or egg casings you can find. If your fuzz is all over the bottom, you probably overfed and that's dead food fungusing. THAT is a bad thing. Get it out. If you don't have it already, get a piece of 3/16" rigid tubing and stick it on to some airline tubing and use that as your siphon. It's slower and more methodical as you can direct the rigid tubing exactly where you need it to go. If you do see that it's food, cut back on the amount of food you feed at each feeding and siphon any leftover foods from previous feeding PRIOR to the next feeding. The bottom of the tank/tub should be clean at all times from here on out.
If you see that it's just a fuzz, you may want to consider putting the fry in another tank and stripping that tub down with some peroxide or bleach to make sure whatever you had growing in there is no longer growing before using the tub again. You really don't want "fuzz" in the tank once the fry are swimming. Now you have to hygiene conscious at all times.

 

[sinibotia]

Once the fry are free swimming, you should have a sponge filter in there and be siphoning out any dead food or fry or egg casings you can find. If your fuzz is all over the bottom, you probably overfed and that's dead food fungusing. THAT is a bad thing. Get it out. If you don't have it already, get a piece of 3/16" rigid tubing and stick it on to some airline tubing and use that as your siphon. It's slower and more methodical as you can direct the rigid tubing exactly where you need it to go. If you do see that it's food, cut back on the amount of food you feed at each feeding and siphon any leftover foods from previous feeding PRIOR to the next feeding. The bottom of the tank/tub should be clean at all times from here on out.
If you see that it's just a fuzz, you may want to consider putting the fry in another tank and stripping that tub down with some peroxide or bleach to make sure whatever you had growing in there is no longer growing before using the tub again. You really don't want "fuzz" in the tank once the fry are swimming. Now you have to hygiene conscious at all times.

See, that's what's really weird. This fuzz showed up before I started feeding, and after I had removed the dead eggs. In fact I only just fed them the first time an hour ago. If it were algae I would understand it as a nitrate problem. As it is I have no idea. But I'll go remove it.

Also, for the time being, is it feasible or problematic to raise the ram and angelfish fry together? The ram bin is 100% fine.

 

[Andy Sager]

See, that's what's really weird. This fuzz showed up before I started feeding, and after I had removed the dead eggs. In fact I only just fed them the first time an hour ago. If it were algae I would understand it as a nitrate problem. As it is I have no idea. But I'll go remove it.

Also, for the time being, is it feasible or problematic to raise the ram and angelfish fry together? The ram bin is 100% fine.

Then it could be something else organic that is breaking down or feeding the fuzz making organism. Was the tub used for anything else where a coating of something, like algae, could have dried up on/in it? That could explain it's cause. All I know is "fuzz" doesn't come from nowhere and fungus needs a source to feed on so something in there created it. No?

 

[sinibotia]

Then it could be something else organic that is breaking down or feeding the fuzz making organism. Was the tub used for anything else where a coating of something, like algae, could have dried up on/in it? That could explain it's cause. All I know is "fuzz" doesn't come from nowhere and fungus needs a source to feed on so something in there created it. No?

The bin was used for storage of blankets but I washed it thoroughly and there were never any fuzz problems before the eggs hatched. The whole thing is very strange. In any case I've vacuumed most of it out.

 

[Andy Sager]

The bin was used for storage of blankets but I washed it thoroughly and there were never any fuzz problems before the eggs hatched. The whole thing is very strange. In any case I've vacuumed most of it out.

2 things: 1- see if it comes back. If it does, it means that it's alive and not a very safe place for your eggs anymore. and 2- if you can post a picture, maybe we can identify it better. "Fuzz" is not a really defining description.

 

[sinibotia]

2 things: 1- see if it comes back. If it does, it means that it's alive and not a very safe place for your eggs anymore. and 2- if you can post a picture, maybe we can identify it better. "Fuzz" is not a really defining description.

It basically looks like saprolegnia but not growing on anything in particular the way saprolegnia typically does. I can't get a good picture. In the meantime I'll keep an eye on it.

 

[Mr Fisher]

Well I've had something unplanned happen, 2 of the 5 silver veils I purchased a couple of weeks ago have paired up and spawned in the grow out tank.

Like Andy always said, the fish have a mind of their own. lol

So here's the deal, they spawned on the UV sterilizer in the right hand side of the tank and are guarding it like mad. So should I just throw in a tank divider or move them and the eggs?

I'm kinda frustrated that I can't see the eggs well due to the poor clarity of the water. From what I can see it looks a lot like the first spawn from my other pair as in being small and all over the place.

It blows my mind that they did spawn as the fact that they were well, smal fish. I guess my age judgement for veils isn't as good as regulars. Most regulars this body size would be 2.5-4 months old in my eyes.

 

[Mr Fisher]

Well I attempted to move them and that isn't happening. I'll just throw a divider in then move them. They kept darting in with the others on the left side of the tank, lol.


These two pair will have me pretty busy over the winter, which is good.

 

[Mr Fisher]

Quick video of the wigglers now swimming

 

[Mr Fisher]

And the new pair

 

[Andy Sager]

It may not be you. I've had 2 pairs start spawning at an incredibly small size myself. Other then as a fertility check, I just let them have the spawn because I don't want to deal with fry that small at this time. When the parents are young and small, so are the eggs as well as the fry. Too much work in my eyes. If you want to keep them together, just use a divider or remove to another tank and let them grow a bit before working the spawns. If these are not the pairs you want, just separate the pair into 2 sides of the tank or separate tanks so that they don't harass the other fish every time they want to spawn. This gives them some more time to grow before spawning again. Some young breeders will not spawn very frequently at first which is why I prefer to let them get bigger before worrying about keeping the spawns even if they do care for the spawns. I'd rather have them put their energy into growing than spawning.

Hope this helps