Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels

[Andy Sager]

Andy, when do you release the fry from the hatching bowl into the tank? They are just starting to get ready to free swim so I think all is going well at this point and my main breeders are doing well with their eggs again. Just hope my Phillipian Blues start breeding in a few months , but that's still a ways off.


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All depends on the size of the hatching" Bowl". I don't like to move my fry until after they have become free swimming AND have had a meal or 2 in their bellies. This works in 2,5 or 10 gal tanks but not in 1/2 gal containers. This is why I prefer to hatch the eggs in a 10 gal half filled with a measured 5 gals of water. This way, after they hatch, I can just add a small amount of water daily without stressing the fry. My buddy, on the other hand, hatches in a 1 gal container and pours the fry into their first growing tank the day they become free swimming. But he also has been doing smaller water changes on those fry daily as well.

 

[RRP1501]

They're in a 10 gallon aquarium in a 2 gallon glass fish bowl. The aquarium has a little more than 5 gallons of water in it and the bowl has 2 gallons in it. If all the fry hatch there should be around 50 or so.


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[Andy Sager]

They're in a 10 gallon aquarium in a 2 gallon glass fish bowl. The aquarium has a little more than 5 gallons of water in it and the bowl has 2 gallons in it. If all the fry hatch there should be around 50 or so.


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So if they were in the 10 gal to begin with, why use the bowl? The water temps should be the same so start doing water changes with the water in the tank so that when they are free swimming you can just empty them into the tank. ( I'm assuming the tank has no other fish in it.)

 

[RRP1501]

Your right, no other fish. I thought that's what was supposed to be done. So I can just put the slate in the tank itself as long as there are no other fish or fry there. When you say water changes. Are you talking about the bowl with the fry? Can I just slowly pour the bowl out into the main tank after I change the water in the bowl? I'm slowly learning these new things but I guess I may have to get used to it because the parents eat the eggs otherwise. And I have about 24hrs after they start free swimming before I have to start feeding them?


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[Andy Sager]

Your right, no other fish. I thought that's what was supposed to be done. So I can just put the slate in the tank itself as long as there are no other fish or fry there. When you say water changes. Are you talking about the bowl with the fry? Can I just slowly pour the bowl out into the main tank after I change the water in the bowl? I'm slowly learning these new things but I guess I may have to get used to it because the parents eat the eggs otherwise. And I have about 24hrs after they start free swimming before I have to start feeding them?


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Yes, the slate can go directly into the hatching tank. Depending on how much water you use in the tank will determine what direction the slate will need to be in. The eggs don't care if the slate is upright or on it's side as long as you got air bubbles flowing in front of them. (I'll try to post a video of this on my youtube site in a few days.)
As for the water changes, fry are a bit delicate so I suggest you do partial water changes daily instead of trying to acclimate the fry to the new water all at one time. Your choice tho. If you try it and succeed, no need to do it slowly. If it fails, you'll know for next time.

As for feeding, yes, I generally start my BBS the day the fry start swimming. This way, they will have the food the first feeding of the next day. Once you get a pattern of how long it takes for the fry to swim, you can start your BBS so that the shrimp hatch the same day the fry swim. It's just a timing thing. It's better to feed the fish a day late than feed the fry food that is too big for them to eat. (The shrimp start growing immediately after hatching so you want them as close to newly hatched as you can. )

Just to be clear, the fry cannot be put back in with the parents after free swimming. Once they are out of the tank, the parents will eat them if you put them back in with them. That 10 gal is fine for hatching the eggs out in and growing the fry for about 3-4 weeks. After that, they need a bigger tank to grow in.

 

[RRP1501]

Sounds good Andy. I'm not sure if they're going to survive. Not to much movement for awhile now. But I'm learning with each batch. Hoping maybe these parents will start raising there fry instead of eating them. The LPS owner was surprised I had so many fish and that they were raised in with the parents.


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[Andy Sager]

Unfortunately, parent raised Angels are not the easiest to find. They are inherently bad parents unless you get back to the wild fish. That instinct just sucks with Angels. Even with some pairs that will raise their fry, it's not guaranteed they stay that way. My only successful pair here ( The Silver/ Black pair) raised a single spawn and neither parent, when mixed with another fish, ever raised another fry. This is why pro breeders don't take the chance and just hatch out the eggs themselves. It's really not hard to do.

I shot a video this morning to show how but I need to get to a better place to post it. My connection is so slow that it was going to take 24 hours to upload a 2 minute video. I need to get to somewhere with a higher speed internet connection.

 

[skylane]

I hope you can post that Andy.[emoji106]

Clem

 

[Andy Sager]

Today was a good day. I have confirmed Albino cory fry. They hatched sometime last night or this morning. I did see a few dead ones already but this is to be expected with this fish. I just hope I have a few to grow to show me what's working. They are in a tank with a dusting of sand on the bottom, some java moss and plastic plants so we will see what happens. I reduced the water level to a few inches and have a sponge filter in the tank from when the parents were in there. Since I was using peroxide to keep the eggs clean, I also added some bacteria water from an established sponge filter so hopefully, the little ammonia I saw ( I did treat the tank with PRIME) won't be an issue for long. There were close to 60 or 70 eggs that I could see and who knows how many I couldn't see in the sand so I'm looking forward to seeing some swimming cories.

I also had a few spawns today from fish I needed to spawn. Hopefully, this will start the road back for the Angels. There were 2 spawns I was really rooting for but they seem to be shrinking quickly as I had to leave them with the parents. Of course, TOMORROW is water change day so I didn't have enough clean tanks to pull all the spawns The double spawn tank did have some swimmers after all was said and done but not enough to really get excited enough to crank up the brine shrimp bottles. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that these spawns will change that. I have red cap wigglers as well as koi wigglers. Hopefully they will turn into free swimmers. It does show that the parents may be back to better reproduction with the old diet.
Speaking of the Red Cap, some of her oldest fry are really showing some red in their crowns. Sadly, it's not very dark and I am trying not to use a coloring food but at least I know some will have red in them even without it. Those will be the new breeders.

 

[Andy Sager]

Video's up. Check it out here: https://youtu.be/aqQSEuUHSig

 

[skylane]

Thank you teacher for that lesson, the Koi Angels look pretty cool Andy!!![emoji40]
The video came out great too, and ummm your voice sounded a lot better too man!!![emoji38] no coughing...

Take care my friend, and thanks for helping us dudes too.


Clem

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks Clem. It's a bit more precise than the pic in my album. Now, you get to see it in action.

FYI, those were not Koi Angels in the Vid. Those were a pair of Gold Marbles. The female just has a good stretch of golden red along her back which is why, even tho she only has 1 pelvic fin, I'm still breeding her. That will be a long term project if their fry will survive. So far, all have been duds, even the swimmers.

 

[sinibotia]

So, I just thought you'd like to hear Andy that I now have a second batch of swimmers Around 300-400 in this batch? No fungus this time, hooray for MB! And I've only lost one fish from the first batch in the last 2 weeks, pretty soon I'll have to start culling though. Couldn't have made it this far without your advice! Thanks Andy!

Btw, great video!

 

[Andy Sager]

So, I just thought you'd like to hear Andy that I now have a second batch of swimmers Around 300-400 in this batch? No fungus this time, hooray for MB! And I've only lost one fish from the first batch in the last 2 weeks, pretty soon I'll have to start culling though. Couldn't have made it this far without your advice! Thanks Andy!

Btw, great video!

Thanks..... and your welcome.
Great to hear about #2 spawn. It only gets hairier from here. Hope you have more tanks ready to go.

 

[RRP1501]

Thanks Andy, that helps a lot! I had the bubbles going up the slate over the eggs. They eventually fell off the slate, but they did hatch, and quite a good size hatch too! There swimming free in the 10 gallon. I have the parents in a tank right next to 10 gallon and they JUST laid another batch as I was changing some water in the fry tank. I'm going to see if they'll raise this batch, but if they hold true to form, they'll eat them in about 4 days. My other pair are tending to their fry but I don't think there are many alive. I'll see in a day or so. Think I'm going to have to build a rack in the basement for a few more tanks next month! Thanks again for the video Andy!


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[Andy Sager]

Thanks Andy, that helps a lot! I had the bubbles going up the slate over the eggs. They eventually fell off the slate, but they did hatch, and quite a good size hatch too! There swimming free in the 10 gallon. I have the parents in a tank right next to 10 gallon and they JUST laid another batch as I was changing some water in the fry tank. I'm going to see if they'll raise this batch, but if they hold true to form, they'll eat them in about 4 days. My other pair are tending to their fry but I don't think there are many alive. I'll see in a day or so. Think I'm going to have to build a rack in the basement for a few more tanks next month! Thanks again for the video Andy!


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Glad the vid helped.
In some cases, the eggs just aren't as sticky as they used to be so they fall off. Same with the fry. I have some that fall down if you even brush them with the slightest bit of water force and others that actually stayed attached to a plastic plant while I removed it from the tank, held it in a bucket with the parents while I stripped the tank and still were there when I placed the plant back into the tank. Now THAT'S some head cement!!!!

 

[RRP1501]

????


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[sinibotia]

Hey Andy at what point does culling typically start? My 1st batch of angels have all started developing fins but I haven't seen a single one missing any. Is there anything else I should be looking for, or is it still too early to say?

 

[Andy Sager]

Hey Andy at what point does culling typically start? My 1st batch of angels have all started developing fins but I haven't seen a single one missing any. Is there anything else I should be looking for, or is it still too early to say?

It starts when the fish doesn't look right. Some fish won't look bad for months as in the case of some of my Black Lace. Their fins bend at about 2 months of age but look perfect up until then. So don't be fooled at such a young age. Dwafism also is a "cullable fault" that you won't know about until the fish is older as well. When all the other fish are grown and the 1 or 2 or few fish stay really small, those should be either culled or not allowed to be bred. I have 1 fish now that is almost 3 years old yet is smaller than some fish I have that are only 5 or 6 months old. I just use that one as a tank tester since I know it's healthy just not a potential breeder or salable item. So don't be in a rush if you want quality. Quality comes from time.

 

[sinibotia]

I'm in no rush! I just want to make sure I'm doing it right and not missing steps. The first batch has gone so well that I feel like I'm missing something...