Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels
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Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Got 2 more spawns today to test my theory that the place is fixed. 1 is from the pair that hatched out their eggs and ate the fry on day 5. The other is one that I have had mixed results with hatching or free swimming. I've had swimming fry from this pair but they were not healthy so there's the real test for them. 
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Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Things are starting to look up. Another pair formed in the Gold Angel grow out tank where I had placed a marble female after her mate had died. Got a spawn from her and a Gold yesterday but they were still going at it at the beginning of the game yesterday so I was going to pull the eggs at halftime only to forget about it. Came in this morning and there was a good chunk of missing eggs but this IS the male's first spawn ever so now I have pulled the rest of the spawn as a fertility test. I just need that 1 egg to hatch. 
I did get confirmation that my clown pair is fertile. The hatch percentage will be okay but the spawn itself was rather small to begin with so even with the higher rate, the amount of fry will be small. They did hatch this morning so now it's just a matter of seeing what comes from them.
Sadly, I screwed up and didn't keep up with testing the water in the Trio spawn and today, most were dead. Checked the water and there was ammonia, nitrites and a small rise in nitrates. Not sure how that happened unless the bacteria bed was on the slate as the only thing else in the tank was an airstone and a heater that had been out of water for a few months. Thankfully, those fish seem to be spawning on a regular basis so I'll know for next time that at least they are fertile. Still waiting for a Barred Marble spawn to survive. Haven't had one of those yet.
The new Guppy row just got it's water pump in so hopefully that will be up and running by mid week. Right now, I've moved some fish over to it and am using some of those bins for Angels ( which is causing a problem space wise) so once I get everybody where they belong, things should be working a bit smoother again.
Set up one of the 2 tanks for the Tetras to separate the sexes so those should be ready to spawn in the spring.
I'm giving the albino cories a rest for now so they can build up their eggs. I had to put some Angels in their spawning tank so until I can move them, there's no place really for them to spawn where I can save the eggs. A nice dilemma to have but a dilemma none the less.
Another pair formed in the Gold Angel grow out tank where I had placed a marble female after her mate had died. Got a spawn from her and a Gold yesterday but they were still going at it at the beginning of the game yesterday so I was going to pull the eggs at halftime only to forget about it. Came in this morning and there was a good chunk of missing eggs but this IS the male's first spawn ever so now I have pulled the rest of the spawn as a fertility test. I just need that 1 egg to hatch. I did get confirmation that my clown pair is fertile. The hatch percentage will be okay but the spawn itself was rather small to begin with so even with the higher rate, the amount of fry will be small. They did hatch this morning so now it's just a matter of seeing what comes from them.
Sadly, I screwed up and didn't keep up with testing the water in the Trio spawn and today, most were dead.
Checked the water and there was ammonia, nitrites and a small rise in nitrates. Not sure how that happened unless the bacteria bed was on the slate as the only thing else in the tank was an airstone and a heater that had been out of water for a few months. Thankfully, those fish seem to be spawning on a regular basis so I'll know for next time that at least they are fertile. Still waiting for a Barred Marble spawn to survive. Haven't had one of those yet. The new Guppy row just got it's water pump in so hopefully that will be up and running by mid week. Right now, I've moved some fish over to it and am using some of those bins for Angels ( which is causing a problem space wise) so once I get everybody where they belong, things should be working a bit smoother again.
Set up one of the 2 tanks for the Tetras to separate the sexes so those should be ready to spawn in the spring.
I'm giving the albino cories a rest for now so they can build up their eggs. I had to put some Angels in their spawning tank so until I can move them, there's no place really for them to spawn where I can save the eggs. A nice dilemma to have but a dilemma none the less.
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Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Got 2 more spawns today to test my theory that the place is fixed. 1 is from the pair that hatched out their eggs and ate the fry on day 5. The other is one that I have had mixed results with hatching or free swimming. I've had swimming fry from this pair but they were not healthy so there's the real test for them.
So here's an update on these spawns. The first spawn was the Black/ Black lace and again, the wigglers got to about day 5 but this time I added some zeolite to a filter to remove whatever ammonia was in the water and the fry still died which may have been why the parents ate them. Since this is a more fragile color, it may explain the losses better. I'm seriously considering breaking this pair up.
As for the other spawn, today was supposed to be free swimming day and......... I GOT SWIMMERS.
I do have a noticeable number of fry that are jumping on the bottom of the bin which is similar to what was happening before so I won't know whether this is a viable fish to keep or not. The male has a proven track record but the female is from my friend and only her siblings bred before so there is no record of her success or failure in breeding. I now have 2 other spawns from my oldest pairs and 1 hatched yesterday and the other is slated to hatch tomorrow. If I get swimmers from both of these, then I will know I have solved my air issues. I've been keeping the windows and door open the past few days and that means if these fry swim, I need to install an exhaust fan in here. No doubt!!! Thankfully, I have one already.
I just need to install and wire it in. I'll have to make some kind of door for it so that I can shut it at night to prevent heat loss.I still have about 8 or 9 fry from the Gold pair and I did get 3 hatched eggs out of the new Gold and Marble pair so I know they are a viable pair to keep breeding. Hopefully time and experience will yield better results as they go forward.
So all and all, things are looking up so I can continue getting the Guppy rack into operation.
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Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
And I got another 2 spawns tonight, 1 from an established pair and another from another new pair. All I need is to have some of each swim to make me happy.
anachrotech
Aquarium Advice Regular
Sounds like things are looking up. Fingers crossed.
Karay
Aquarium Advice FINatic
It's been awhile since being on AA and it looks like I have a lot of catching up to do. Just from reading the last couple of pages I can says great to hear about your set up Andy. Look forward to catching up!
My wife is wishing she didn't suggest that I get into aquariums!
My wife is wishing she didn't suggest that I get into aquariums!
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Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Sounds like things are looking up. Fingers crossed.
Thanks but as always, there's a yang to the ying. Swimming fry going down, eggs not hatching while others are. It's all part of the process. It ain't easy.
If it were, everyone would be doing it. Nice to see you again Ray. Was wondering what happened to ya.
Yeah, a lot has been happening so enjoy the read. I've also started a channel if you'd like to see some videos. : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj_qgLapSoDjA8iJA49NeQwI hope to be uploading some new vids too, soon as I get some free time.
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Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Well the frustration factor is on the rise again. These new ammonia reducers worked great........for about a week or 2 but don't seem to recharge as advertised. I cleaned a tank the other day and with just an open airline in the tank, I tested the ammonia level before using that water for some wigglers and it showed an ammonia count of .25 ppm. That just SUCKS!!!!! So I am back to keeping a sealed bucket of water for fry water changes and looking into other ways to control this short of installing an exhaust fan. In a perfect world, the install would be pretty easy but I have too much "stuff" in the way of where it should go plus I would have to have precise "luck" in getting the hole through a double layer of wood, insulation and metal siding. NOT my most favorite thing to do. 
On the bright side, I had 2 new spawns by parents I really want to keep going with hatch with a high percentage. I really hope I can get these to swim. I also had a very poor hatching from an old pair while the sister pair had a great hatching so I'm not real sure what that was all about But for now, If things don't change with the wigglers, I'll either have to do them in my house until they swim or set up the porch again for hatch and wiggler stage then bring them over here for growing.
FYI, this is becoming a real pain.
I cleaned a tank the other day and with just an open airline in the tank, I tested the ammonia level before using that water for some wigglers and it showed an ammonia count of .25 ppm. That just SUCKS!!!!! So I am back to keeping a sealed bucket of water for fry water changes and looking into other ways to control this short of installing an exhaust fan. In a perfect world, the install would be pretty easy but I have too much "stuff" in the way of where it should go plus I would have to have precise "luck" in getting the hole through a double layer of wood, insulation and metal siding. NOT my most favorite thing to do. On the bright side, I had 2 new spawns by parents I really want to keep going with hatch with a high percentage. I really hope I can get these to swim. I also had a very poor hatching from an old pair while the sister pair had a great hatching so I'm not real sure what that was all about
But for now, If things don't change with the wigglers, I'll either have to do them in my house until they swim or set up the porch again for hatch and wiggler stage then bring them over here for growing. FYI, this is becoming a real pain.
That's a shame on the ammonia reducers - you sound flat out
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Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
I'm not dead yet, just not eager for the alternatives.That's a shame on the ammonia reducers - you sound flat out
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Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
So a quick update: I did get some hatch from both my old pair's spawns with the Kois having a much larger hatch percentage HOWEVER, the percentage was so small on the other one of them that I just scrapped it due to "lackatankspace" but the Koi spawn had about 20-30 fry that are swimming and eating live brine. So there is a small light at the end of this tunnel. The weather here has been gorgeous the past few days so the door and windows have been open for ventilation during the day and I have been changing water and adding PRIME to the bottles so hopefully that is why I got SOME fry to swim. I have 3 other spawns currently that are from pairs which have had bad results their last time so I'm hoping there is a difference this time with the fresh air and water or else I will be finished with those pairs.
FYI: The surviving 8 fry from the new Gold pair are still doing well. It's hard to believe that no matter how hard I've been trying to kill them, they are just chugging along. That just makes it harder to understand the results from the other spawns. They are getting much better care and not having better success. Not knowing whether it's the fish, the genetics, age or what makes it hard to make a decision as to what to do with them. But I AM running out of tank space in here for all these pairs. (Especially if I get some fry to start living again. )
FYI: The surviving 8 fry from the new Gold pair are still doing well. It's hard to believe that no matter how hard I've been trying to kill them
, they are just chugging along. That just makes it harder to understand the results from the other spawns. They are getting much better care and not having better success. Not knowing whether it's the fish, the genetics, age or what makes it hard to make a decision as to what to do with them. But I AM running out of tank space in here for all these pairs. (Especially if I get some fry to start living again. )
livefishguy124
Aquarium Advice FINatic
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- Feb 11, 2015
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hey i haven't been here lately, sounds like it is going well, where are the most recent pics, i remember page 38. but my angels died, i had one who is really mean to all my angels i couldn't put any smaller ones in because he would tear up fins and force them to hide, but i have 2 inches longs that are good friends, my big one is really cool looking but i may have to move/get rid of him.
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Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Just a little update, My F1s from the 1/2 Black- Zebra Lace decided that it was time to start making some F2s Right after the water change and addition of a slate, I got a small spawn from a Zebra and Silver phenotype pair. I decided I wasn't going to take any chances so I moved them immediately to some clean aged water and over to the house to see if I get at least an egg to hatch and swim.
Well, I got what I wished for. On day 3, there were only 9 viable eggs left on the slate and this morning, I finally saw 1 wiggler. I know it's their first spawn and I am not disappointed by this result just saddened that there weren't a lot more. So they past the FERTILITY test but failed at the VERILITY test. Hopefully that will change with time. Now all I need is for the F1s from the 1/2 Black pair to start spawning. THAT should be interesting.
Right after the water change and addition of a slate, I got a small spawn from a Zebra and Silver phenotype pair. I decided I wasn't going to take any chances so I moved them immediately to some clean aged water and over to the house to see if I get at least an egg to hatch and swim. Well, I got what I wished for. On day 3, there were only 9 viable eggs left on the slate and this morning, I finally saw 1 wiggler. I know it's their first spawn and I am not disappointed by this result just saddened that there weren't a lot more. So they past the FERTILITY test but failed at the VERILITY test.
Hopefully that will change with time. Now all I need is for the F1s from the 1/2 Black pair to start spawning. THAT should be interesting.
Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels
Congrats! Best of luck for next time. Any more?
Congrats! Best of luck for next time. Any more?
guppygourami
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Where do you find slates? My angelfish have had four batches of around 200-300 eggs each but they always lay them on the heater so the eggs basically get fried they actually laid around the same amount today but I have no idea how to save the ten that are still clear, any tips? I'd really appreciate them
<g.m.t.a>
they actually laid around the same amount today but I have no idea how to save the ten that are still clear, any tips? I'd really appreciate them <g.m.t.a>
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Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Where do you find slates? My angelfish have had four batches of around 200-300 eggs each but they always lay them on the heater so the eggs basically get fried
<g.m.t.a>
If you have problems finding slates at your LFS, you can also use Clay/ Terra Cotta Pots, PVC piping ( I'd use 2" or larger diameter and make the pieces about 10" +/- tall) or Penn Plax makes a plastic breeding slate. Any of those, placed in front of the heater so the fish can't get to the heater, should suffice.
Also, it doesn't have to be slate per say. I also have long pieces of Shale that I use for spawning sites. Some of my fish actually prefer it over the slates I've gotten. They can be picky.
Hope this helps
guppygourami
Aquarium Advice FINatic
If you have problems finding slates at your LFS, you can also use Clay/ Terra Cotta Pots, PVC piping ( I'd use 2" or larger diameter and make the pieces about 10" +/- tall) or Penn Plax makes a plastic breeding slate. Any of those, placed in front of the heater so the fish can't get to the heater, should suffice.
Also, it doesn't have to be slate per say. I also have long pieces of Shale that I use for spawning sites. Some of my fish actually prefer it over the slates I've gotten. They can be picky.
Hope this helps
Thanks SOOO much! Will go out looking tomorrow
<g.m.t.a>
ghyti
Aquarium Advice Activist
Where do you find slates? My angelfish have had four batches of around 200-300 eggs each but they always lay them on the heater so the eggs basically get fried
Turn your heater horizontal. Angels Plus sells slates specifically for angelfish breeding. A 12" piece of 1-1/2 inch PVC with a "T" on the bottom works. Also can use 3x12 inch white ceramic tile from Home Depot.
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Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
I'm starting to have doubts that I will be able to continue hatching out spawns inside the building. In the past few days, before I kept any spawns, I've had the windows and door open at least 14-16 hours a day with fans blowing up to the ceiling and one out the front door and the a/c or heat not on and today, I tested an egg tank where the eggs hatched 2 days ago and the ammonia level was once again, on the high side. So a complete water change was done on all the fry bottles ( there are now 5) that were in the building and everybody was moved over to the house to join the other 2 fry tanks. So enough ammonia is being created at night that it's still polluting the fry water. So screw that!!! From now on, all eggs will be hatched next door on the porch ( or inside if the weather is too hot) and once they become free swimming, then they will come to the hatchery and go in a tank with a sponge filter. This way, I won't have an ammonia OR nitrate issue to have to deal with. I need to start saving some of these spawns already ( or figure out how to do that) as the F1s are now pairing off and spawning. I can't move forward with genetic corrections if I can't get these F-1 spawns to survive.
In the past few days, before I kept any spawns, I've had the windows and door open at least 14-16 hours a day with fans blowing up to the ceiling and one out the front door and the a/c or heat not on and today, I tested an egg tank where the eggs hatched 2 days ago and the ammonia level was once again, on the high side. So a complete water change was done on all the fry bottles ( there are now 5) that were in the building and everybody was moved over to the house to join the other 2 fry tanks. So enough ammonia is being created at night that it's still polluting the fry water. So screw that!!! From now on, all eggs will be hatched next door on the porch ( or inside if the weather is too hot) and once they become free swimming, then they will come to the hatchery and go in a tank with a sponge filter. This way, I won't have an ammonia OR nitrate issue to have to deal with. I need to start saving some of these spawns already ( or figure out how to do that) as the F1s are now pairing off and spawning. I can't move forward with genetic corrections if I can't get these F-1 spawns to survive. Similar threads
