African or South American for new 75g?

[dlwn88]

Hey guys,

I currently have just a 30g with a few small/medium sized African Cichlids. I'm also currently cycling a 75g for them, however, I've been having issues with the one Red Zebra harassing all the other ones. I have two OB Peacocks get a bit mean sometimes too but not nearly as much. They mess around with what I think is a yellow lab (it's yellow but is constantly changing to a yellow-ish/purple sometimes, especially when being chased) and two black/dark grey chiclids who have been calm this entire time. Yeah I bought an African mix so I'm not 100% what I have...

Because of this issues I'm having with them, I was debating whether to keep them or return them to the pet store and start off the 75g with south american cichlids. I recently went to a LFS that's huge further from my area that had many many kinds. They didn't seem as colorful but they all looked unique and most of them seem to grow much larger. I mainly know about African cichlids and only the basics of South Americans.

Do you think this is a good idea? If so what's a good model to go by for a 75 south american tank as far as the amount of fish?

Thanks guys,
Dave

 

[dlwn88]

I've done some reading and aparently South American's have more personality then Africans do, especially the Oscars. At first I wasn't interested in getting one but the more I hear about it the more I become interested. How many Oscars should you put in a 75g?

 

[HUKIT]

With a 75gal and the right amount of filtration and water change schedule you could have 2 but nothing else. The real problem with oscars is compatability between two fish. Since there is no way to sex them and having 2 male oscars in a 75g tank with end with one being killed. The only way to house 2 oscars together is getting a pair which is tricky by itself. The best way is to find a pair already or the alternative is buying 6-7 fish and letting them pair which doesnt happen till they reach maturity at 18 months and by that time they are 8-10inches which requires a huge tank. I was lucky to find 2 fish who I thought were both females (75% success rate with 2 ladies) because I kept seeing eggs but they were never fertilized but low and behold I now have fry. Below is great article on oscars.

Cichlid-Forum :: View topic - Oscars 101

Now my male is 14" and the female is 13", I run 2 Fluval 405 canister's with a 50-60% water change weekly and the nitrates have never been over 20ppm. So it can be done with the right fish, but as with people they truly have their own personalites and even my pair have fights when it comes time to breed ( lip locking, chasing, herding, and tail slapping ). They have been my favorite fish to keep in all these years. The only fish I will replace them with are Festae's.

 

[dlwn88]

Wow, I'd love to keep an oscar but the biggest thing stopping me is 50% water changes every single week. My schedule is tough sometimes, plus that would be a major PITA.

Anyways, I'm leaning more towards Jack Dempsey's and a couple of other similar types. My main question is, since a lot of these fish get fairly big, could I just put 2-4 small Jack Dempsey's or Green Terrors for example in a 75 without any problems? I see the LFS with a lot of small ones packed into a tank but the larger ones are usually only 2 per tank.

The LFS had Firemouth Cichlid listed as "Moderately aggressive, grows to 6 inches" so I'm a little bit interested in them as well. I also liked the Bifasciatus Cichlids they had, they have a breeding pair. LFS also had a ton of small oscars. Also, there was a tank with a large oscar and a couple of other large cichlids of the same size, the oscar would pick on them every now and then but other then that they seem to actually get along.

I'm just trying to have a setup to where I don't have to change THAT much water each week if possible. I'd imagine there are cichlids that require less water changes then 50% a week. Any further advice for my 75g would be helpful, thanks guys.

 

[HUKIT]

I change 50-70% water on all 7 tanks weekly, with a Python changing 20-70% really makes no difference in the work just takesa few more minutes. I am guilty of overstocking all my tanks but with the right filtration and water change schedule it's easy. To perform smaller changes just run a lighter bioload.

I would not stock 4 JD's when fully grown due to aggression issues but would recommend a male/female with some smaller dithers like school of congo tetras, giant danios or a few firemouths.

 

[dlwn88]

I change 50-70% water on all 7 tanks weekly, with a Python changing 20-70% really makes no difference in the work just takesa few more minutes. I am guilty of overstocking all my tanks but with the right filtration and water change schedule it's easy. To perform smaller changes just run a lighter bioload.

I would not stock 4 JD's when fully grown due to aggression issues but would recommend a male/female with some smaller dithers like school of congo tetras, giant danios or a few firemouths.

Doesn't a python run directly from your kitchen faucet? It wouldn't match the temp and other levels if this is the case. You can get away with having other non-cichlid fish in there like tetras?

 

[HUKIT]

Yes but it fills the tank as well, you just adjust the temp of the water to match the tank conditions. It really doesn't get any easier.

As far as other non-cichlids sure you can keep other fish. Congo's are one of my favorite fish. You also have alot of options with bottom feeders like loaches, bristlenose plecs, and catfish like pictus.

 

[dlwn88]

Nice, I'm glad I can at least add a few different fish with New World ones. In African tanks you usually see just other Africans, maybe a bristlenose pleco, but that's all.

I'm currently running a Marineland C-360 Canister rated for 100 gallon tank. With mine being a 75g, it's runing my entire tank through 4.8 an hour. Will this be okay if I have a pair of small Oscars, Jack Dempsey's, or something else similar? I've heard a lot of good things about the FX5 but I'm wondering if that's too much.

Any other types of South American chilids that would be are great to have as a pair in a tank like this? I'm trying to keep my options open. Doing research sure makes cycling the tank easier, I'm normally not a patient person lol. Nitrites just started showing up yesterday, fishless cycle using pure ammonia is working very well.

 

[toddnbecka]

A single Oscar is all you can realistically keep in a 75, 2 or more simply require a larger tank. You could get by with a pair of Dempsey's while they're young, but there's always a risk of the male killing the female if she isn't ready/willing to spawn and can't get out of the male's territory.
I have loads of Australoheros oblongum juvies available, and a handful of Cryptoheros cutteri remaining. You could easily keep a pair of each in a 75 with some silver dollars or large tetras. The oblongums are SA, the cutteri are CA, but both are similar in size and general disposition (relatively mild), and don't claim a large territory when spawning.
Cutteri in a 55; kept at lower temps (~68) they don't pair off and spawn, but growth rate isn't affected:

Oblongum male, he's about 6" now:

Females look similar, smaller w/rounded fins:

Pair together, no worries about one beating up of killing the other when they aren't spawning:

 

[dlwn88]

Thanks for that post toddnbecka. There's a few LFS in my area, and there's one that has a very large space just for cichlids, they have the biggest selection on types of cichlids, all the main species as well as the ones you normally can't find at a Petco . I'm trying to find something that grows to a decent size, but doesn't try to destroy everything in the tank. I'd figure despite their nature I'd be okay with an Oscar pair but like you said, not enough room. As tempting as it is, I really want to do things correctly.

I'll have to stop by there this weekend and see if they have this type. I love cichlids but I hate worrying about them going on a killing spree. So a type that's not as aggressive and can be around other fish like Tetra's makes things a lot easier, and makes for cooler looking tank IMO.

Thanks again for the advice. Any other similar cichlids like this you or anyone else would recommend? I'm interesting in anything that get's around 6' or more that looks great and like I mentioned isn't insanely aggressive.

 

[toddnbecka]

Seeing dozens of fish, usually juvies, crowded together in a tank doesn't mean they can live that way indefinitely. The issue with most cichlids is the size of the territory they instinctively claim. An aquarium isn't remotely like their natural environment, usually a river or lake, with plenty of room to get away from another fish when necessary. Even some smaller species like firemouths claim a relatively large area, usually 3-4', which pretty well accounts for most or all of the average tank space available.
Their territorial instincts are primarily directed toward conspecifics (rival males or females) then secondarily toward competition for breeding sites, food, etc. If there isn't enough room for one fish to get out of another's territory it's quite likely to be killed, either outright or stressed to death. Tetras or other schooling fish are also helpful for strengthening a pair-bond, giving the cichlids something beside each other to worry about and protect their eggs/fry from.