beginner to cichlids

[nickstanley995]

Hey everyone I've recently had the thought of starting a cichlid tank! I have zero experience though. I came here for some advice so I do not screw up and hurt any fish by not properly caring for them. So I have a few questions.
What is a smaller size tank i could buy and how many could go into it?
I'm a university student so I dont have thousands of dollars to poor into this tank.
Is there any I should stay away from being a beginner?
Are there some i should buy BECAUSE I am a beginner to cichlids?
Any information or answers is much appreciated!
Thank you

 

[93MSB]

Look into bolivian rams, they are considered a dwarf cichlid that is fairly easy to keep. The smallest tank you should consider is a 20gal, a larger tank would be preferred, and you should really get the biggest tank you can fit/afford.

 

[nickstanley995]

Thank you for the response! I was thinking i could afford a 30g tank. I was thinking , more so african cichlid i just like the shape of them better. like the long half circle shape, if I'm making any sense lol. are there any possible that would fit into that kind of sized tank or close to that size? I dont really want any central american cichlids. I'd get them but would prefer africans. thanks again!

 

[Freakgecko91]

Thank you for the response! I was thinking i could afford a 30g tank. I was thinking , more so african cichlid i just like the shape of them better. like the long half circle shape, if I'm making any sense lol. are there any possible that would fit into that kind of sized tank or close to that size? I dont really want any central american cichlids. I'd get them but would prefer africans. thanks again!

I'm assuming you mean Malawian (namely mbuna) cichlids by the generic "African" term. If so, then no, a 30 will not work. The minimum for a mbuna tank IMO is a 4 foot tank, so basically a 55 gallon. They need the room, otherwise you'll have aggression issues.

 

[nickstanley995]

Yes I was talking about mbunas. I was hoping I could do an electric yellows tank in a 33g my friend said hed sell to me. But if it isnt good for the fish then I wont do it. Does anybody have syggestions to what I could put into the 33g?

 

[Rivers2k]

When I was in college both me and a friend wanted mbunas and we had small tanks so he got a zebra for his tank and I bought a demansoni for mine and those single fish had the life they got treated really well and got some real size to them.

That might be an option to start out for you. A single fish in a smaller tank it will be easier to move while in university. Then you will be an expert for when you can get a bigger tank.

My friends zebra got like 7 inches lived 10 years and eventually died from a tumor. Mine didn't last as long it died from a heater accident when I had visitors.

 

[nickstanley995]

So 1 of them for that tank? Would I need all the hiding spots then?

 

[Rivers2k]

So 1 of them for that tank? Would I need all the hiding spots then?

Yes just 1 will work. My tank was a 20 long my friends tank was a 30 gallon that was upgraded to a 45.

I had a large rock in the middle where he could get out of sight if he wanted. You don't want a bare tank the fish needs a place to get out of sight and feel secure.

whatever you do don't try and add a second they don't need a friend and they don't get bored if you try to add a "friend" it will try and kill the friend.

That is if you are dead set on getting mbuna. If you aren't then you could have dwarf cichlid pairs or other types of fish.

 

[nickstanley995]

Thank you ill look into it a bit more and see what I want in my tank 1 mbuna or american cichlids

 

[mistersprinkles]

The 33 gallon is 3 feet long right? You can put a small group of Saulosi or Demasoni in there. It's cramped, but you can do it. A friend had a 29 gallon with demasoni. Was it smart? Not super smart. But it's doable. Did the fish live successfully in it? Yes. No deaths from fights or other causes. Everything was fine. You're below the recommended tank size, but you can still DO it. Others will disagree with me but I can assure you that in a 3 foot tank you can do a small breeding group of demasoni or saulosi. Try to keep it to 7 (2m 5f). It WILL be slightly cramped, but that's no reason not to do it. The fish will be fine and will even spawn for you.

Another fish that'll definitely work (but they're Tanganyikan) is Brichardi cichlids. You could get a small colony of those. They school. Pretty awesome fish. That fits in a 33 gallon no problem.

Yet another option is shell-dwellers. They fit in a 33 gallon no problem, but you may not like their look. Their behaviour is very fun to watch.

And yet another option is a community tank WITH cichlids. In a 33 you could put 1 angelfish, a pair of bolivian rams, and a school of whatever small tetra/barb/danio/pencilfish/etc you like.

Having owned everything on this list I would say that the most interesting things to watch are going to be either the brichardi or the shelldwellers.

whatever you do don't try and add a second they don't need a friend and they don't get bored if you try to add a "friend" it will try and kill the friend.

You are very misinformed about mbuna

 

[Rivers2k]

The 33 gallon is 3 feet long right? You can put a small group of Saulosi or Demasoni in there. It's cramped, but you can do it. A friend had a 29 gallon with demasoni. Was it smart? Not super smart. But it's doable. Did the fish live successfully in it? Yes. No deaths from fights or other causes. Everything was fine. You're below the recommended tank size, but you can still DO it. Others will disagree with me but I can assure you that in a 3 foot tank you can do a small breeding group of demasoni or saulosi. Try to keep it to 7 (2m 5f). It WILL be slightly cramped, but that's no reason not to do it. The fish will be fine and will even spawn for you.

Another fish that'll definitely work (but they're Tanganyikan) is Brichardi cichlids. You could get a small colony of those. They school. Pretty awesome fish. That fits in a 33 gallon no problem.

Yet another option is shell-dwellers. They fit in a 33 gallon no problem, but you may not like their look. Their behaviour is very fun to watch.

And yet another option is a community tank WITH cichlids. In a 33 you could put 1 angelfish, a pair of bolivian rams, and a school of whatever small tetra/barb/danio/pencilfish/etc you like.

Having owned everything on this list I would say that the most interesting things to watch are going to be either the brichardi or the shelldwellers.

You are very misinformed about mbuna

About what exactly? I think you are the one that is misinformed. I am no expert on mbuna even the most novice cichlid keeper knows. You put two mbuna in a tank together they will fight. They need to be in larger groups. Single fish will do fine.

He was specifically asking about mbuna not all the other fish you mentioned so I was trying to help him get the fiah he wanted. A group of Demasoni will NOT work in a 30 gallon. The dominant fish will 1 by 1 kill of the others.

 

[mistersprinkles]

About what exactly? I think you are the one that is misinformed. I am no expert on mbuna even the most novice cichlid keeper knows. You put two mbuna in a tank together they will fight. They need to be in larger groups. Single fish will do fine.

He was specifically asking about mbuna not all the other fish you mentioned so I was trying to help him get the fiah he wanted. A group of Demasoni will NOT work in a 30 gallon. The dominant fish will 1 by 1 kill of the others.

Why did my friend successfully have a 30 gallon long with demasoni? Come on, man.

When I said misinformed I wasn't talking about putting 2 mbuna together, I was talking about getting just 1 vs getting a group. Who puts just 1 or 2 mbuna in a tank?

Group of Demasoni or group of saulosi will work in a 30 gallon long (3ft) tank. It's not ideal, but it'll work. Better yet is a tank of brichardi or shelldwellers.

 

[Rivers2k]

Why did my friend successfully have a 30 gallon long with demasoni? Come on, man.

When I said misinformed I wasn't talking about putting 2 mbuna together, I was talking about getting just 1 vs getting a group. Who puts just 1 or 2 mbuna in a tank?

Group of Demasoni or group of saulosi will work in a 30 gallon long (3ft) tank. It's not ideal, but it'll work. Better yet is a tank of brichardi or shelldwellers.

That isn't called misinformed that is called a different experience. The person that puts 1 mbuna in a tank is one that is in college doesn't have allot of money or room but and mbuna. one that is likely going to move in the next year or two. It worked successfully for me and in my friends case successfully for the oldest mbuna I have personally seen. Just because you haven't done it don't call someone misinformed.

Now on the example of demansoni group in a 30 go read some articles on them don't use forum "examples" go read some experts and see what they suggest. I have tried demasoni group in a small tank it doesn't work the aggression is to high.

Tank of Brichardi yes, tank of Shell Dwellers yes both will work but the op wanted mbuna. I even mentioned if he wanted something other than mbuna there are other options to have multiple fish.

 

[Rivers2k]

Thank you ill look into it a bit more and see what I want in my tank 1 mbuna or american cichlids

Pair of kribensis would work nice. They are african dwarf cichlids. Then for new world cichlids you have German Blue rams or Bolivian rams are nice. A user called TheCommunityCichlid is the man when it comes to dwarf cichlids.

If you are looking for color German Blue Rams are the prettiest I have ever seen but still have attitude they remind me of bulldogs.

 

[nickstanley995]

Thanks everybody im going to make a trip to my lfs and talk to their cichlid expert. All he deals with are cichlids both americcan and african. Ill tell him my scenario and some ideas I got from here and see what he says. I know most people will say hell just try to sell product and not give real answers but I have gone to this lfs for my other fish tanks and they always helped out even telling me to goto other places to buy priduct cause theirs was to expensive and such so thank you all I will put all this into consideration!

 

[Wy Renegade]

The 33 gallon is 3 feet long right? You can put a small group of Saulosi or Demasoni in there. It's cramped, but you can do it. A friend had a 29 gallon with demasoni. Was it smart? Not super smart. But it's doable. Did the fish live successfully in it? Yes. No deaths from fights or other causes. Everything was fine. You're below the recommended tank size, but you can still DO it. Others will disagree with me but I can assure you that in a 3 foot tank you can do a small breeding group of demasoni or saulosi. Try to keep it to 7 (2m 5f). It WILL be slightly cramped, but that's no reason not to do it. The fish will be fine and will even spawn for you.

Another fish that'll definitely work (but they're Tanganyikan) is Brichardi cichlids. You could get a small colony of those. They school. Pretty awesome fish. That fits in a 33 gallon no problem.

You are very misinformed about mbuna

Actually, there are lot of very good reasons not to do it;

From Aquarium Community regarding Demasoni: Aquarium setup: This very beautiful fish is very aggressive and needs a relatively large aquarium. Its recommended to keep a larger amount of this fish to avoid some of the aggression. 20-30 fishes are recommended.

From Live Aquaria in regards to Demasoni: Minimum Tank Size: 50 gallons

From the Cichlid Forum regarding Demasoni:
This is a dwarf Mbuna, and as such, can be housed in tanks not usually recommended for Mbuna species. A 36-inch tank will suffice, but as with all Mbuna, bigger is always better. In the wild, these fish are found together in extremely large groups swimming in and amongst rocky habitats. Surprisingly, members of these groups show very little aggression towards one another. In order to successfully keep a group in an aquarium, the same type of set-up should be simulated.

First and foremost, a minimum of twelve should be kept in any size tank to help disperse aggression. This not only keeps a single male from being dominant over all others, it helps females and sub-dominant males from being chased to exhaustion (and death) by getting "lost in the crowd". A small group of 5 or 6 simply will not work, as the dominant male will systematically kill off each tank mate until only he remains. Male to female ratio is unimportant when they're kept in groups of this size, which is a bonus, because accurately determining their gender can be a futile task.

Personally I find your advice to be contrary to the recommendations of most fish-keepers who have considerable experience with these fish. In my personal experience, neither of the recommended mbuna species are suitable to be kept in a 30 gallon aquarium by anyone other than a very experienced cichlid keeper and in the case of P. saulosi, not even then. I have to wonder why you insist on giving what you yourself classify as "not super smart" advice to someone who expressly stated that they had zero experience with cichlids? The minimal examples that you site are the exception, not the rule and therefore are not good and valid reasons to try something that is not recommended.

Why did my friend successfully have a 30 gallon long with demasoni? Come on, man.

When I said misinformed I wasn't talking about putting 2 mbuna together, I was talking about getting just 1 vs getting a group. Who puts just 1 or 2 mbuna in a tank?

Group of Demasoni or group of saulosi will work in a 30 gallon long (3ft) tank. It's not ideal, but it'll work. Better yet is a tank of brichardi or shelldwellers.

I've kept single mbuna in tanks for a number of different reasons, there are people that do it and the reasons are various. I hardly think that qualifies me or anyone else as being misinformed about mbuna. I've been keeping cichlids, Mbuna specificially, for as long as you state you have been keeping aquariums, and I find your comment a little offensive to say the least.

Why would you give someone who admittedly has no experience with these fish advice that is not ideal?

In regards to brichardi, you need to be more specific in your advice. There are genuses of brichardi that would work in the size of aquarium that you are recommending and then there are genuses of brichardi that get over 6" long and have no buiseness being in a 30 gallon aquarium. You can't just throw the name brichardi out there without being specific about which brichardi you are recommending.

 

[Rivers2k]

Thanks everybody im going to make a trip to my lfs and talk to their cichlid expert. All he deals with are cichlids both americcan and african. Ill tell him my scenario and some ideas I got from here and see what he says. I know most people will say hell just try to sell product and not give real answers but I have gone to this lfs for my other fish tanks and they always helped out even telling me to goto other places to buy priduct cause theirs was to expensive and such so thank you all I will put all this into consideration!

Sounds like a cool place wish there was a place by me that specialized in Cichlids. Good luck and let us know what you get.

 

[mistersprinkles]

In regards to brichardi, you need to be more specific in your advice. There are genuses of brichardi that would work in the size of aquarium that you are recommending and then there are genuses of brichardi that get over 6" long and have no buiseness being in a 30 gallon aquarium. You can't just throw the name brichardi out there without being specific about which brichardi you are recommending.

I thought there was just one kind of brichardi. I've only seen one species around here and only knew of one species locally so I figured there was just one.

Also, from your own link:

This is a dwarf Mbuna, and as such, can be housed in tanks not usually recommended for Mbuna species. A 36-inch tank will suffice, but as with all Mbuna, bigger is always better

I was suggesting them for a 36 inch tank. Your link says 36 inch tank.
I've seen Demasoni work in a 3 footer. That's why I was suggesting it.

I'm not trying to steer anybody in the wrong direction.

 

[Wy Renegade]

I thought there was just one kind of brichardi. I've only seen one species around here and only knew of one species locally so I figured there was just one.

Also, from your own link:

This is a dwarf Mbuna, and as such, can be housed in tanks not usually recommended for Mbuna species. A 36-inch tank will suffice, but as with all Mbuna, bigger is always better

I was suggesting them for a 36 inch tank. Your link says 36 inch tank.
I've seen Demasoni work in a 3 footer. That's why I was suggesting it.

I'm not trying to steer anybody in the wrong direction.

Pere you . . .

Others will disagree with me but I can assure you that in a 3 foot tank you can do a small breeding group of demasoni or saulosi. Try to keep it to 7 (2m 5f).

Pere my link which you reference only the first part of . . .

First and foremost, a minimum of twelve should be kept in any size tank to help disperse aggression. This not only keeps a single male from being dominant over all others, it helps females and sub-dominant males from being chased to exhaustion (and death) by getting "lost in the crowd". A small group of 5 or 6 simply will not work, as the dominant male will systematically kill off each tank mate until only he remains. Male to female ratio is unimportant when they're kept in groups of this size, which is a bonus, because accurately determining their gender can be a futile task.

You can't take only the part of the recommendation which you agree with and try to use it to support your own statements when the rest of the recommendation contridicts what you stated.

While I accept that you are not deliberately trying to steer people wrong, I'm still confused by why you are offering advice that should only be given to very experienced cichlid keepers to someone who admittedly has no experience?

There a lots of cichlids which are very suited to the size of aquarium suggested, and you even suggested a few of them. Mbuna are not, unless you have lots of experience in keeping these fish, and even then, by your own admission, it is not a great idea, so why attempt it?

 

[mistersprinkles]

There a lots of cichlids which are very suited to the size of aquarium suggested, and you even suggested a few of them. Mbuna are not, unless you have lots of experience in keeping these fish, and even then, by your own admission, it is not a great idea, so why attempt it?

No, you're right. It appears I knew less than was required about demasoni and brichardi to make recommendations in this thread. I accept that.

Why suggest something that is not a great idea? To give somebody more than one or two options I suppose. I figure if I suggest it with the "bad idea" strings, they will pass the idea by. Nonetheless, it feels nicer to have chosen from a list of five possibilities than from a list of two, doesn't it?
Just communicating things the way that I'd like them communicated to me. May not work for everybody.

But yes, I was wrong this time, and I hope I didn't steer anybody in the wrong direction.