New to cichlids with some questions

[minihorses4ever]

Hi! I am new here, as well as to cichlids. I currently have a 20G with 3 platies, 1 guppy, and 2 cories. I love my little tank, but I am ready to do something bigger..

Anyway, my dad has a 55 gallon that has been out of service for years at this point. We are going to pull it down from the attic and make sure it can still hold water (If not we are going to reseal it).

I am really wanting to do a Lake Malawi tank. After looking online, I think Yellow Labs are what I really want.. So now onto my questions:

What other fish are safely kept with Yellow Labs?

What kind of water conditions are best for the Lake Malawi species?

Do they prefer sand or gravel?

Do you have to keep males and females or are you able just to have one sex? I am not particularly wanting any fry.. Have already been (And am currently on ) that route with my platies. If you must keep groups of males and females, do the parents eat the fry?

How many of these fish are safely kept in a 55G?

Thanks!

 

[spoonman]

Hi! I am new here, as well as to cichlids. I currently have a 20G with 3 platies, 1 guppy, and 2 cories. I love my little tank, but I am ready to do something bigger..

Anyway, my dad has a 55 gallon that has been out of service for years at this point. We are going to pull it down from the attic and make sure it can still hold water (If not we are going to reseal it).

I am really wanting to do a Lake Malawi tank. After looking online, I think Yellow Labs are what I really want.. So now onto my questions:

What other fish are safely kept with Yellow Labs?

What kind of water conditions are best for the Lake Malawi species?

Do they prefer sand or gravel?

Do you have to keep males and females or are you able just to have one sex? I am not particularly wanting any fry.. Have already been (And am currently on ) that route with my platies. If you must keep groups of males and females, do the parents eat the fry?

How many of these fish are safely kept in a 55G?

Thanks!

I currently have an Mbuna tank. I is a 115G, but here is what have in it.

4 - Yellow labs
4 - Pseudotropheus Acei
4 - Red Zebra
4 - Cobalt Blue Zebra
1 - Albino
1 - OB Zebra

All of these fish get along great and I have no problems. They are very hard to tell apart (male and female) when they are juvenile, so it is hard to get a male female ratio. It is best to have a 1 male to 3 female ratio usually to prevent males from fighting and also to prevent the male from harassing just one female to death. With the ones that are hard to tell apart, I just got 4 and hoped for the best. I feel that the mixture that I put together is a really good mix of colors and makes for an aesthetically pleasing tank too.

My water conditions are nothing out of the ordinary. 0 ammonia, 0 Nitrites and <20 Nitrates. I have 2 HOB filters and do 25-50% PWC every 3-4 weeks. I dont add any salt or buffers or anything like that. Some might have to, depending on your local water conditions.

I recently changed my tank from gravel to Pool Filter Sand (PFS) and my fish are much happier. It is very cheap and the fish love it. You can get it at any pool supply store.

As far as fry. Malawi Cichlids are mouthbrooders. When you see a female holding you will have to separate her and keep the fry out of the main tank until they are grown out. They will get eaten in the main tank. I just had an Acei with a mouthful and they all got eaten. So you will need a growout tank also. Probably a 20 or 30 gallon to keep them in while they are growing.

Any other questions dont hesitate to ask. Good luck and have fun. Dont forget to cycle the tank before getting fish. If you have questions about cycling, check out the links on this site. Lots of good information here and lots of good people to help you do things right.

 

[spoonman]

Just thought I would give you this great link also for identifying Malawi Cichlids. Lots of information here. I also am linking pics of the ones that I have for you to see.

www.cichlid-forum.com

Species Profiles -- Cichlid-Forum -- Yellow Lab

Species Profiles -- Cichlid-Forum -- Cobalt Blue Zebra

Species Profiles -- Cichlid-Forum -- Red Zebra

Species Profiles -- Cichlid-Forum -- Orange Blotch (OB) Zebra

Species Profiles -- Cichlid-Forum -- Albino Pindani

Species Profiles -- Cichlid-Forum -- Pseudotropheus Acei (Acei)

Hope this gives you some ideas.....

 

[DizzCat]

All the best advice!

When you see a female holding you will have to separate her and keep the fry out of the main tank until they are grown out. So you will need a growout tank also. Probably a 20 or 30 gallon to keep them in while they are growing.

You don't need one unless you plan on growing up the fry. You will have constantly holding females, but if you don't want fry, you just let her spit them in the main tank and all the other fish take care of them. You may get one or two make it if they are smart and fast and you have hiding places for them.

As to how many in a 55, about 15. Just make sure its over filtered. You need to crowd them to keep the aggression at a minimum. Any other Mbuna can be kept with Yellow Labs. The only fish that may make it in a Malawai setup is certain catfish. The best setup and the way to see their natural behaviors IMO is to get 3-4 small groups. 1 male to 2-3 females would be good. Like a group of Yellow Labs, Red Zebra and maybe the Cobalt blue zebras. Acei are great outgoing Mbunas. Make sure to avoid getting fish that have the same colors or the males will fight. Like don't get a yellow Mbuna besides the Labs or they will fight.

They really love sand, because they are diggers, but gravel will do too. They need a fairly high pH to stay healthy and at their best. 8.0 and above is best. You can get a cichlid buffer like I use.

One last piece of advice, stay away from Kenyi, Johanni, Auratus and Bumble Bees. They are very common in the stores, but the meanest Mbuna there is.

Here is a great profile list of Mbuna to give you ideas on what you might like. Try to match aggression levels in all your picks.

Species Profiles -- Cichlid-Forum

 

[mcgrady7761]

i ve done quite a bit of research and another possibility is getting demasonis or pseudtropheus saulosi . the saulosi get to about 4 inches and look exactly like demasonis and yellow labs.

 

[spoonman]

All the best advice!

^^^^^^^Cuz I got it from DizzCat^^^^^^^^^^

Sorry about the fry advice. I missread the original post. I thought you said you wanted to have fry. If you leave them in the main tank I dont think any will survive. The big ones have eaten all of mine so far. I think I have a cobalt blue holding now!

 

[DizzCat]

Demasoni are very beautiful fish. The problem with them is they are so aggressive towards their own kind that you start with 4 and end up with 1 in no time. The only way to do Demasoni is either a single one with other Mbuna, or 12 and above. You go any lower then that number and they will all be killed by the dominant one.

Saulosi are really pretty too and you would get the look of both. I would love a small group of them myself, but cannot find them here. If you go with them I would avoid the Labs because the male Saus may like them too much, being both females are yellow. If you are doing a species only tank of them, I would do 2 males and about 8 females.

I have a 55 and this is my setup:
1m/3F Yellow Labs (all adults over 4")
1m/2f Red Zebras (have 3 growing out and hoping for another female) (3 are adults at over 5")
1m/3f Acei (all over 6" now)
2m/2f Lab. Permutts. Waiting for the males to grow up and am keeping the prettiest and best one. They are still 2.5" and the females are over 3".
2 Lab. Hongi Not sure of the sex yet. Am hoping one of each, but if both males I will keep the best one as a single.

It may sound like alot, especially since most are over 4" now but if you keep up with your water changes and over filter, they are fine. Plus, that many is keeping the aggression down. Because I have so many I have a very peaceful tank. The dominant male, my Red Zebra, just chases them once in awhile. There are too many for him to really dominate, so he stays mellow.

 

[minihorses4ever]

Wow, thanks for all the info!

I have sand in my current tank so I am very happy to read that they prefer it since I do to!

What filters do y'all use for your tanks? And where do you get rock to put into your tank? I have read that it is very important to have hiding spaces, and I am wondering if you get rock for this at your LFS. Thanks!!

 

[spoonman]

You can get the rock at your LFS. I got mine on Craigslist. Texas Holy rock or some people call it lace rock. I have 2 HOB filters for 60 gallon tanks on my 115 gallon tank.

 

[mcgrady7761]

i have an emperor 400 and a sponge filter in my 29. talk about over filtration. with both running i get all the tanks water cycled through the filter 25 times in an hour

 

[DizzCat]

I picked up most of my rock at my lfs. Its lace rock. I really like it more than the smooth river rocks because you can piece it together like a puzzle almost. It makes the best caves!

It is VERY important that they have caves to hide in. Your goal should be at the least 1 cave per fish, better is 2 caves per fish. If you have too few, a couple dominant fish will take them over and pick on all the rest. With a lot, there is just too many for them to keep tabs on.

I also have pieces of black pvc pipe I cut up and put under the rocks to create more caves. Make sure when you put the rocks in to wiggle them. If you can move them chances are good the fish will dig under it and topple the whole pile.

Here's a link to my Mbuna tank pictures to help you get an idea.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/members/23852-albums624.html

 

[minihorses4ever]

I picked up most of my rock at my lfs. Its lace rock. I really like it more than the smooth river rocks because you can piece it together like a puzzle almost. It makes the best caves!

It is VERY important that they have caves to hide in. Your goal should be at the least 1 cave per fish, better is 2 caves per fish. If you have too few, a couple dominant fish will take them over and pick on all the rest. With a lot, there is just too many for them to keep tabs on.

I also have pieces of black pvc pipe I cut up and put under the rocks to create more caves. Make sure when you put the rocks in to wiggle them. If you can move them chances are good the fish will dig under it and topple the whole pile.

Here's a link to my Mbuna tank pictures to help you get an idea.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/members/23852-albums624.html

Wow, your tank is stunning!!

So, whenever I go to pick out the fish, am I going to be able to see differences in males and females? So, as spoonman said, am I going to just have to "pick and hope for the best"?

Thanks again! Everyone has been very helpful!

 

[DizzCat]

Thanks

Its pretty much hit and miss while getting your first fish. They are always small

juveniles​

between 1 and 2" at the stores and most do not show the differences until 3-4 inches. Look thru profiles and pictures of males and females you want. After you look thru them you can start to see the subtle differences. Do not go by egg spots on the anal fin. People will say only males haves them. This is not true, most females do. All of mine do.

Yellow Lab males will have more intense black in their fins than females. Females will have some, but not as heavy as a male. Red Zebra males develop a blue sheen to the bodies and fins as they age. Acei males are impossible to tell until they are almost full grown.

I still have 2 Yellow Labs, 2 Hongi and 3 Perlmutts I am not 100% sure of the sex of. They are all between 2 and 3" now. The only sure 100% way of knowing is to have a female hold eggs and to see which other she spawned with. A dominant female can be just as aggressive and bossy as a male can, so behavior cannot always be for sure either.

Good luck!

 

[minihorses4ever]

Thanks! So what would happen if I accidently got say, 3 males and 1 female since they were young.. What would happen when they got older?

 

[spoonman]

I have 19 fish in my tank right now and am not sure what sex most of them are. They are getting along fine. At this early point I am just making sure that I have alot alot alot alot alot of hiding places and tunnels and caves for them. That gives them places to stake out as their own and also places to swim to and hide. Also as mentioned earlier in the post, somewhat overstocking helps to spread out any potential aggression. It has worked in my tank!!!

 

[DizzCat]

In the beginning having more males than females wont really matter. Its when they become bigger and start to get mature and dominant that the trouble starts. But then again, the males may ignore each other. If that happens you need to find more females. Even 2 is better than one. I have only one for sure Yellow Lab and she does not get picked on to death the way people describe, so it all depends on how dominant the male is. My male spends more time keeping the rest out of his cave than paying attention to her. Now, if I only had one female Acei, she would be exhausted because that male is forever on the ladies butts! Following them, chasing them, vibrating at them, non stop from sunup to sun down!

The best thing is to go around to small local fish stores, the family owned type and ask if they will take any extra males if you need to re-home later. Most will take larger fish because they know what sex it is and can get more for adults price wise. If you can find one to buy them in, all the better. They are much better quality at private fish stores than big stores.

I have 2 groups in my tank. The first group is the ones I started with over a year ago. They range from 4.5-6.5" now and are all adults. The other group is young ones I got recently when I upgraded my tank size. These are now hitting the 3 inch mark and everyday I am seeing more dominance issues. Nothing serious, just the circling and stuff. This is how they develop a hierarchy. Once those little guys figure it out things will settle down, until they reach the size to take on the adult males. Who knows who will be the tank boss in 6 months.