Too Many Cichlids?

[Cichlidlovers]

I have a 33 gal. tank with a Jack Dempsey, 2 cobalt cichlids, a jewel, a yellow lab.a blue striped lab.a red zebra and a lonely kissing fish(pink gourami) who was the original in the tank. I have been doing lots of research about cichlids and everyone says a min 50 gal tank is needed.I am looking to buy one, but until I find one for a good price are my fish going to be ok? I have had them all together for about 3-4 months and up until recently they have all got along rather well. Jack seems to be stressing out lately the last couple of days he has been quite grey in the day time, and I noticed that the ph level dropped a bit as well. Any suggestions as to what could cause this? Something else I have noticed is that the few large scale cichlid tanks I have seen have only had 2-3 fish in the tank. Is that the norm? Thanks to all who can help me I just love these fish and really want to do right by them.

 

[SerLunchbox]

well .. they should be ok for the time being given that they are smaller in size, but definately a larger tank is needed. Mr. Jack will be stressing out. He is a Central American cichlid where most others are all african. What do you have in your tank for substrate and decorations?

 

[Cichlidlovers]

I have 2 caves and a ship,lol, and a few fake plants. As for substrate, please don't think me stupid, but is that in this case gravel at the bottom of the tank? I am actually going tommorow to get some coral gravel as I was told by a friend that it would be best, I have also heard that sand is good as well but as I have an undergravel filter I didn't think that would work so I am waiting till I get the big tank to put sand in.

 

[SerLunchbox]

umm UGF's with cichlids is a bad combo ... they will actually ruin the filteration process that it employs.

 

[AlonelyCody]

Welcome to AA !!!

 

[SerLunchbox]

indeed ... welcome to AA

 

[Cichlidlovers]

Thank you all!! I have heard that about the UGF's and will not be using one in the bigger tank, but my husband finally let me get a tank and so I got the whole tank kit and it came with the UGF, I have since added a side filter as well. I didn't even know cichlids were out there and had a peaceful community for a few months before I spotted my first cobalt and fell in love..lol. And our local walmart has had a pretty good stock of different cichlids so I have been hard pressed to stop buying them. They have been digging pits I assume this what buggers up the filter, how long do I have before it poops out on me? should I fill the pits back in?

 

[SerLunchbox]

Cichlids will dig and dig and dig. They rarely stop and if they even crack a small hole to the UGF then it will be rendered useless. Filling the pits back in can help but won't eliminate the digging

 

[Menagerie]

[center:7eb891282a] Welcome to AA, Cichlidlovers!! [/center:7eb891282a]
You need to research the needs of each of your fish. JD, jewel and the Africans should not be living together. This is a disaster waiting to happen. I have lost far too many fish by combining the wrong ones!

2 cobalt cichlids, a yellow lab.a blue striped lab.a red zebra

These all come from Lake Malawi and are rock dwellers (Mbuna). These are the cichlids I keep and you can see the set up in my gallery. Mbuna prefer harder water and need to be fed a veggie based diet. Too much protein makes them susceptible to "Malawi Bloat."

JD and jewel are South or Central American, prefer softer water and have a different diet.

 

[xray]

When you get your bigger tank put the Africans in the there. Leave the SA cichlids in the 33gal. Although the JD may get too big for that (eventually).

What HOB filter do you have? Maybe you could add another one and that would be enough filtration and you could loose the UGF.

As for the substrate, go ahead and add the crushed coral. That will help keep the ph up (which the africans like). Get some rocks and pile them up this will give the Mbuna places to hide.

A good rule of thumb for newcomers is 1 inch of fish per gallon of water. Remember to count the size of the fish at full growth. Yes you should do research on all of the fish you have and all that you want.

One more thing, try to find a LFS. Walmart is not the best place to find fish. You will get better fish and more knowledge from a LFS. JMO

HTH

 

[poppab02]

Don't waste your money on the crushed coral. Your fish will be fine as long as you keep the ph constant. When your fish were at Wal Mart they had the same ph as your tank has right now. Save your money and use it on a penguin 330 biowheel HOB filter or an Aquaclear filter. That UGF is not going to cut it. Especially now that your fish aren't babies anymore and are getting much bigger. They are going to overload the capabilities of that UGF.

Just for reference I kept 6 mbuna cichlids in a 29 gallon until they were about 3-3.5 inches and then it was just way to small because when they hit sexual maturity they need their own space or else they will kill each other. For a 55 gallon 6-9 african cichlids is what I would recommend, for a 30 gallon I would recommend only 3-5 because full grown there just isn't enough room to escape when a fish is showing aggression.

The JD is going to have to go, it's just going to get too big and it's not compatible with the africans. The Jewels also aren't technically compatible but I've kept them successfully with mbuna for years. As long as you carefully monitor it they should be fine. It can be done. Make sure you don't feed those africans too much protein or else you are going to have bloat problems. Quite frankly, that gourami is not going to survive too much longer in that tank. One night one of those cichlids will get hungry or just restless and that will be the end of the gourami. Really, if you get rid of the gourami and JD and a large HOB filter you should be okay for awhile. Eventually they are going to need a bigger tank, this is just a short term fix.

 

[Cichlidlovers]

I went to my LFS and was told by them that the jewel and Jack would be fine with the Africans. I have gotten more information on here than I have from them. And our LFS's prices on the fish were way high compared with the prices at walmart for the same fish. I personally have had better luck dealing with Walmart than I have at our 2 LFS's, and a better survival rate. Will the africans get bigger than the JD and Jewel is that why I should put them in the bigger tank? Or is it because I have more of them? I have an Aqua-Tech 30-60 gal power filter for an HOB. So I should take everything out of my tank and add crushed coral rocks and another HOB?
Thank you all for your help I am leaning alot.

 

[Cichlidlovers]

This is what I feed them everyday..
1. Morning..Flakes and slow sinking pellets
2. Dinner time...I very this..1 day frozen bloodworms, next day frozen brine shrimp, next day gammarus.
3. Bedtime snack spirula sticks and some more flakes.
Frozen lettuce occasionally
So far so good no bloating.
I guess I will have to get Jack his own tank as he is one of my favorite fish and it would kill me to get rid of him. The gourami I know is a goner soon. I had a pair that were the originals in the tank and the cichlids took one out a month or so ago and I can't put him in the community tank as he is very vicious so I left him in there as a target fish.

 

[poppab02]

Problem with the JD
Adult size--8-10 inches
When fully grown JD's are very aggressive
SA cichlids due to temperment and size are usually kept one or two to a tank
Therefore, if you plan on keeping the JD---you need at least one 55 gallon tank, just for him--or a 75 gallon tank if you want to keep him with one other JD or another large SA cichlids

African mbuna cichlids
Adult size-4-6 inches
also very agressive when adults--males are much more aggressive than females and terrorize fish with similar coloring
I already gave you my recomemendations for fish numbers for tanks

Why you can't keep them together
Biggest problem-different pecking orders, as adults they don't understand each others aggression patterns--which is why you always see fish getting torn apart and picked on in mixed tanks
second biggest problem--mbuna cichlids get bloat when fed a SA diet--they need floating pellets, flakes, and vegetables
smaller problem--different water quality needs--the water hardness is the biggest issue but cichlids are fairly adaptableand will usually survive in less than perfect conditions

Don't go back to that LFS, any employee that would recommend a JD and Africans being kept together is a moron
The reason that most people don't recommend shopping at WalMart--They give no info on the fish and they nearly always have diseases, usually ick--However, every Wal Mart varies and really it's not a problem if you have a qt tank

Feeding---Stop feeding them 3 times a day, at the most they should be fed twice a day--however most people only feed their cichlids once a day and even once every other day when they are adults--overfeeding causes alot of problems and is much worse for your fish than under feeding---cichlids always act hungry so fight the urge to keep feeding them

Second issue with feeding--all that protein is not good for the Africans, it will eventually cause problems

 

[Menagerie]

That is too much food!! I feed my full grown Mbuna once every other day. Often they have a slice of zucchini or cucumber to graze on. For all you ever wanted to know about Malawi Bloat: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/malawi_bloat.php

 

[Cichlidlovers]

Holy cow..Thank you so much, I will stop feeding them so much right away! I don't know why but I thought that if I fed them more they would be less inclined to eat each other. I am really glad I joined this forum and I truly feel bad for abusing my poor fish. Thank you poppa for the great info. I will never get rid of Jack but it is a shame that they are such aggressive fish. I guess I will have to eventually get 2 large tanks and maybe keep the 30 gal as a breeding tank.

 

[poppab02]

Don't worry about it, everybody goes through this initial learning process. Online is the best way to learn stuff and the people here are generally very helpful and nice. Most employees at the LFS or Wal Mart know little about fish. Of about the 30 places around New Orleans that sell fish, I would categorize 3 places as having employees that know even the basic info needed to sell fish. I actually shop at a Petsmart around here which is amazingly good when it comes to fish, most Petsmarts or Petcos are terrible but this one is very good, it just varies from place to place.
BTW how big are your fish right now? the 30 G would be big enough for the JD alone for awhile even though he would eventually need a bigger tank.
Feeding them more will cut down on aggression, but once a day is enough to feed to cut the aggression down. If they are real small, feeding twice a day is acceptable.
If at all possible separate the JD from the rest of the fish so you can start feeding the africans a vegetable based diet. Float some Zuchini for them, they will highly appreciate it.

 

[Cichlidlovers]

JD is approx 2 1/2 inches long and about an inch and a half width or height. The Cobalt and red zebra are about the same size at 3 inches.The jewel is not as long as the cobalt but is much thicker. All the rest are about an an inch and a half. The smallest being the new female cobalt she is tiny. unfortunately I have no place for the JD at this time, I am looking for a bigger tank in our local buy and sell but so far everything is way out of my price range. So I hope they will be able to get along for the next month or so. What other types of veggies are good for them, and should it be frozen slightly like the lettuce?

 

[poppab02]

As Menagerie said, fresh zuchini and cucumbers work well. At 3 inches your cobalt and red zebra are really hitting the point of sexual maturity and may start really causing problems if not moved to a large tank. The JD should last awhile in the 30 gallon alone once you move the other tankmates out. Just be careful and watch them until you can get a larger tank.

 

[Cichlidlovers]

I was told at that LFS that I told you about that the cobalt and zebra will breed. Is this true? And is that why they are digging pits?