Ammonia Reading from Dead Fish

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UABsleeperSRNA said:
Ha did I mention you will get many opinions on this topic.. I only change about 30% of my water every 3 days (all my fish are happy as can be nitrate 10-15 ammonia 0 and nitrite 0).. I have seen large water changes kill a couple of fish esp if already stressed out fish.. Unless your raising discus and and trying to remove the inhibitory growth hormones or ammonia is grater tan 1.5 I don't know why you would need to change more than 50 % but I use a water change system and run tap water directly into my tank so that probably adds a little extra stress this is just my personal opinion hope it helps
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As I pointed out in the second sentence, IMO. Ammo greater than 1.5 ??? I would hope that's a typo as I know of nobody that would wait that long. Even with a low pH value, ammo at that range is deadly. I've never heard of a WC being the direct link to a fish death, EXCEPT when a dechlorinator has been forgotten.

Furthermore, I'll go on to point out that large volume/frequency WC's to remove those "hormones" is not specific to just Discus. Although it's generally more publicized in regards to them, it's quite often forgotten about in general husbandry of any other fish. Many are fairly undereducated as to what the potential of their fish can be simply because of impulse buys and lack of research.

Edit : Forgot to attach link. http://injaf.org/articles-guides/do-fish-grow-to-the-size-of-their-tank/
 
treemanone2003 said:
As I pointed out in the second sentence, IMO. Ammo greater than 1.5 ??? I would hope that's a typo as I know of nobody that would wait that long. Even with a low pH value, ammo at that range is deadly. I've never heard of a WC being the direct link to a fish death, EXCEPT when a dechlorinator has been forgotten.

Furthermore, I'll go on to point out that large volume/frequency WC's to remove those "hormones" is not specific to just Discus. Although it's generally more publicized in regards to them, it's quite often forgotten about in general husbandry of any other fish. Many are fairly undereducated as to what the potential of their fish can be simply because of impulse buys and lack of research.

Edit : Forgot to attach link. Do fish grow to the size of their tank? | INJAFINJAF
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First i was not trying to be demeaning or say what you were doing is wrong.. you have an approach to the hobby of keeping fish that has worked for you.. their are a million different ways and opinions of what one can do and be successful i was simply pointing out that.. one does not have to do large water changes daily to be successful in the hobby and personally In My Opinion as you pointed out i think that large of a water change leaves very little room for error .. besides the amount of dissolved gasses if someone is not changing their water daily like you are then they will also be changing the chemistry of their water.. minerals organics ect.. in a matter of minutes.. not to mention if you don't get your temp exactly right.. can you tell me that would not increase the stress your fish are experiencing?

When i change my water with my water changer water runs directly from tap to the tank which i have just dosed with prime for the full size of the tank.. Prime Says it works instantly but with it being so concentrated and the small amnt put into your aquarium and no filtration running i know it's volume and distribution is not adequate to immedetly breakdown all the chlorine in the tank so are the fish harmed by the chlorine coming into the tank that has not been broken down yet? i don't know and personally i don't to take any chances.. my water parameters are great my fish or healthy so why would i stress them with 75-100% water changes..?

"Ammo greater than 1.5 ??? I would hope that's a typo as I know of nobody that would wait that long. Even with a low pH value, ammo at that range is deadly."

Your right i would i would never let my ammonia get to this level as i usually advise changing when it gets to 0.50 but actually an ammonia of 1.5 and a ph of 7.4 with a temp of 80 would give you a free ammonia of 0.024 which is not immediately toxic but can cause damage with prolonged exposure.. However that is not the point i was trying to make what i was trying to point out is that an ammonia level of 1.5 (just theoretically speaking) i would still only change 50%.. why you ask if you change 50% your diluting your ammonia to .75ppm which would then give you an free ammonia level of 0.008 which can be tolerated by fish for prolonged periods of time without resulting damage.. that's not to mention that adding prime to the size of your tank makes any remaining ammonia nontoxic at all..

And in regards to inhibitory hormone the site you pointed me to talks about GABA which goldfish may release and inhibit growth.. and possible hormones that may be released in over crowded fish tanks..? I didn't find anything compelling about Inhibitory release of hormones.. from species besides goldfish or when overcrowding is an issue

And as to practicing husbandry i spend about 80 hours a week studying or in class and their is no way that i would be remotely close to being able to change my water every day.. but i also don't think it's necessary in a healthy aquarium as you can see from my numbers 30-40% water changes 2x of week have well worked for me... I do however agree that someone cycling their tank with fish do need more frequent water changes.. however i was simply giving my opinion as to why i do not think 80-100% water changes are necessary again This is My Opinion..
 
If I didn't mention it before, when I do water changes, I'm using the Aqueon water changer, so water goes straight from the tap to the tank just like UAB's. I does for the entire volume of the tank using Tetra AquaSafe Plus.

Of course I don't have any filters running, so the AquaSafe probably isn't spreading throughout the tank as quickly as it could, so I would venture to say that the fish are exposed to a minute level of Chloramine/Chlorine for a brief period of time. Is this enough to cause them to go belly up; I honestly can't say.

What I do know is that one of my Zebra Danios went belly up, but was still breathing yesterday as I was filling up the tank; fortunately it's doing fine now and swimming with its friends without issue.

I'm thinking that maybe the small amount of Ammonia that was in the tank combined with a large water change might have stressed it out a little (same thing happened with my Pleco; he's fine now as well).
 
I agree. There's no way that a water change is NOT stressfull on a fish. You're taking out part of their home...this leads to less room for swimming, less oxygen, etc. Not to mention refilling the tank can be a bit turbulant depending on quickly you refill.
 
I have found that the key to a healthy aquarium is stability and routine. Everyone's aquarium is different. Tons and tons of variables that make our aquariums unique.

If you do all those water changes and the fish are accustomed to them then you're never gonna see a problem as long as you keep them up.

I do 20% water changes a week in my 47 gallon. I do it religiously every weekend. No problems. If I felt I wanted to start doing 50% then I would slowly build up to it.

I believe that fish don't appreciate sudden changes from the norm. Most can handle it but you always get one.

Keep things stable and make changes slowly. That's my philosophy.
 
So I did a test of Ammonia tonight which was about 9 hours after the 30% water change and my level is still .25ppm...no change from this morning.

Weird right? I tested the tap water and right from the tap I have .25ppm of Ammonia. I am going to let the tank sit for a few days and see how if the Ammonia gets back down to 0ppm.

What do you guys do when you have Ammonia readings straight from the tap? Dose with Prime and hope that your tank processes the Ammonia before the Prime wears off?
 
Once your biofilter catches up it should be processed out well within the time period that the prime is forcing it to be ammonium. Should be little to worry about with even semi hardy fish. -until then you're pretty much between a rock and a hard place.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Aquarium Advice mobile app
 
No kidding lol. I had some issues with the fishless cycle, so I'm not surprised I'm going through this now. At least the Ammonia level is what it is and not worse.
 
Well...good news and bad news. The good news is that the Ammonia reading is not going above .25ppm. I discovered that my tap comes out with .25ppm of Ammonia, so I haven't been doing any water changes until Ammonia drops back to 0ppm (I don't want to continue adding Ammonia on top of what is already in the tank). I'm pretty sure the bacteria is slowly catching up to my bio-load and hopefully by week's end, it'll be down to 0ppm.

The bad news is that I'm starting to see a slight rise in Nitrites. When I tested this morning, it was a bit darker than 0ppm, but not quite .25ppm.

I'm actually happy that this mini-cycle is happening finally because I wasn't sure if/when it was going to start. Hopefully it only lasts a few days and then things are back to normal.

Fortunately, all the fish are happy and don't seem bothered by less-than-ideal parameters.
 
Well...I was hoping to not have to do a water change, but when I tested just now, Ammonia was at .25ppm and Nitrites were at 1ppm. I didn't want to risk letting the Nitrites get any higher, so I'm doing a 50% water change as I type. I really though the tank was cycled prior to this, but it appears it wasn't.

On the plus side...all the fish seem happy. I hope I get through this mini-cycle quickly!!
 
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