Betta won't eat

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sinibotia said:
Do you know of any studies done that actually show it being used practically and effectively?

I'm near certain there's no scientific evidence of it as an appetite stimulant, and it's not considered by researchers to be an immunostimulant or effective as any kind of treatment.
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Garlic has allicin in it which combats internal parasites and worms.

Here's one study showing the effects of garlic on a fish farm vs the control group that didn't receive any. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24598083

As far as an appetite stimulant, it isn't so much that it makes a fish more hungry, but the pungent smell attracts fish and makes them curious in the object. It's more correlation instead of causation. Garlic makes a hungry fish more curious about the food but doesn't make a fish hungry.


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I'm confused, so it's good but not good? Should we use it or should we not?


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GoldeenTrix9898 said:
I'm confused, so it's good but not good? Should we use it or should we not?


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I haven't heard of any long term negative effects from it and I'm not sure what sinibotia has read or come to the conclusion of. That said, as with anything, moderation is key. It has its time and place but there are a lot of claims about it being a miracle cure for everything which isn't true. Try it out if your betta isn't eating still. Just buy a jar of minced garlic and soak the pellets in some of the juice from it.

The fact that highly recommended food companies such as new life spectrum and omega one include it in their foods should give you some peace of mind about it. They're generally two of the most recommended foods and I'm sure they have done their research over the matter so they don't lose those recommendations.


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NigelK8485 said:
I haven't heard of any long term negative effects from it and I'm not sure what sinibotia has read or come to the conclusion of. That said, as with anything, moderation is key. It has its time and place but there are a lot of claims about it being a miracle cure for everything which isn't true. Try it out if your betta isn't eating still. Just buy a jar of minced garlic and soak the pellets in some of the juice from it.

The fact that highly recommended food companies such as new life spectrum and omega one include it in their foods should give you some peace of mind about it. They're generally two of the most recommended foods and I'm sure they have done their research over the matter so they don't lose those recommendations.


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Oh my betta is eating fine, it's the OP's betta that's having eating problems. Any updates OP? You've gone quiet.


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Not sure if this is mentioned in the abstract, but for the fish that were fed the effective doses of garlic (10% and 20%) a very large portion of the fish sampled after that procedure showed muscular dystrophy after just 14 days of this experiment.

"Evidence of muscular dystrophy was observed in all sampled fish. Ten out of 11 examined fish from the group fed 20% garlic displayed evident dystrophy, which was slight in 8 fish (about 3% of the muscle tissue seen in a section was affected), and more severe in two cases (about 10% of the muscle tissue). In the group fed 10% garlic 7 out of 11 fish displayed muscle dystrophy and in the continuous bath treatment and control there was the least occurrence of dystrophy, (2 out of 11 fish and 3 out of 9 fish, respectively; data not shown)." (Fridman, 2014)

AH, Sargent JR, Thompson KD 1993
Terrestrial and fish oils affect phospholipid fatty acid composition, development of cardiac lesions, phospholipase activity and eicosanoid production in Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar).
Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 49(3):665-73

AH, Park MT, Sargent JR.1991.
High dietary linoleic acid affects the fatty acid compositions of individual phospholipids from tissues of Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar): association with stress susceptibility and cardiac lesion.
J Nutr. 121(8):1163-72

J. Gordon Bell2, John McEvoy3, Douglas R. Tocher, Fiona McGhee, Patrick J. Campbell* and John R. Sargent 2004
Replacement of Fish Oil with Rapeseed Oil in Diets of Atlantic Salmon (Salmo salar) Affects Tissue Lipid Compositions and Hepatocyte Fatty Acid Metabolism
The American Society for Nutritional Sciences

J.G. Bell1, D.R. Tocher1, B.M. Farndale1, A.H. McVicar2 and J.R. Sargent1 1999
Effects of essential fatty acid-deficient diets on growth, mortality, tissue histopathology and fatty acid compositions in juvenile turbot (Scophthalmus maximus)
Journal Fish Physiology and Biochemistry 1573-5168 Volume 20, Number 3 p263-277

SL Seierstad, TT Poppe, EO Koppang, A Svindland, G 2005
Influence of dietary lipid composition on cardiac pathology in farmed Atlantic salmon, Salmo salar L
Journal of Fish Diseases.

Those are my go-to references regarding garlic. (Most) Fish don't have the enzymes to break down the lipids found in terrestrial plants, so they end up getting stored in the body. So it's likely that even a tiny amount can be harmful over time as it will continue to be deposited rather than digested or allowed to pass through.
 
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Hmmmm, maybe the garlic DOES encourage eating and consequently is considered a good thing for fish, but has unseen or unnoticed long-term effects on the fish's health? Perhaps it's bad for them, but not to a point where it kills them, maybe just shortens their lifespan a little. But because people don't do dissections on their fish after they die, they simply assume it's from old age?


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Again, I think it's all about moderation. Most people aren't raising a fish farm or giving a 20-30% garlic diet on a regular basis. When it comes to encouraging a fish to eat, I soak pellets and flakes in a thawed out bloodworm or brine shrimp cube and let it soak in those juices rather than soaking in garlic juice. When it comes to internal parasites, I'd rather give a fish garlic than many of the chemical medications that will be more harsh.

It has its pros and cons just like anything else, it's just about knowing when and how to use it.


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As with many other products within the hobby I can't help but think that that the whole garlic thing is yet another marketing ploy.

It's so easy to cause hysteria in this hobby and as soon as a new approach latches on it can be pretty difficult to remove.

I would imagine omega and NLS (the marketing geniuses they are) would have been pretty silly to miss out on this one rather then watching their competitors food with added garlic fly of the shelves it would make sense to follow suit and add another ten food varieties to the every growing selection.

I use NLS with added Garlic basically because it's pretty hard to get it without and until experts find fish grazing on garlic cloves at the bottom of the Amazon or lake Malawi I would say it's necessity for keeping fish healthy is negligible. Having said that I've yet to see any ill effects in my fish that I can confidently attribute to feeding garlic.

Either way, I wouldn't get too in to this one.


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Caliban07 said:
As with many other products within the hobby I can't help but think that that the whole garlic thing is yet another marketing ploy.

It's so easy to cause hysteria in this hobby and as soon as a new approach latches on it can be pretty difficult to remove.

I would imagine omega and NLS (the marketing geniuses they are) would have been pretty silly to miss out on this one rather then watching their competitors food with added garlic fly of the shelves it would make sense to follow suit and add another ten food varieties to the every growing selection.

I use NLS with added Garlic basically because it's pretty hard to get it without and until experts find fish grazing on garlic cloves at the bottom of the Amazon or lake Malawi I would say it's necessity for keeping fish healthy is negligible. Having said that I've yet to see any ill effects in my fish that I can confidently attribute to feeding garlic.

Either way, I wouldn't get too in to this one.


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Click to expand...


The health benefits of garlic are exceptionally well researched in multiple species.

But back to the OP ... How goes it?

Sitting upright on the bottom is normal but laying on a side is not. It's possible it's something you couldn't have helped. Bettas are not so delicate as to need extreme acclimation. What you did is fine.

A lot of us learn and get hooked on the hobby by having good and bad experiences with bettas. Meemo, Bob, Meemo 2, Bob 2, and Meemo 3 Led to my understanding of GH/KH/ph concerns. I have very soft water. A year later Bob 2 (or maybe 3) is doing well, he's even been through a few zero-acclimation emergency tank jumps and recovered from fin rot, and had a brush with very bad dosing of alkaline buffer (enough he writhed with discomfort when he went into his new tank the day I got him, poor guy).

But fish laying on the floor of the tank in the first month after coming home ... Usually sick in my experience. Often from water quality issues, even more often from being a unit of mass commerce.


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Patsy47 said:
I love Bettas...and they are, USUALLY, pretty sturdy......as long as the water is dechlorinated and a moderate temp, they thrive. I actually put my first one in my 125 G tank with 4 females and he thrived. Actually, the girls dominated him....too funny. I name all my Bettas MAX-for you young folks out there we used to have BetaMaxes before VHS,,,i know, you don't even know what VHS is ,do you?? anyway...sadly, you might have a Betta that has really been thru the mill and he might not survive....if so, go find another one from a GOOD pet store and give him a good home...you'll never regret it! Cheers.
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Lol - that made me laugh.
 
sinibotia said:
Not sure if this is mentioned in the abstract, but for the fish that were fed the effective doses of garlic (10% and 20%) a very large portion of the fish sampled after that procedure showed muscular dystrophy after just 14 days of this experiment.

"Evidence of muscular dystrophy was observed in all sampled fish. Ten out of 11 examined fish from the group fed 20% garlic displayed evident dystrophy, which was slight in 8 fish (about 3% of the muscle tissue seen in a section was affected), and more severe in two cases (about 10% of the muscle tissue). In the group fed 10% garlic 7 out of 11 fish displayed muscle dystrophy and in the continuous bath treatment and control there was the least occurrence of dystrophy, (2 out of 11 fish and 3 out of 9 fish, respectively; data not shown)." (Fridman, 2014)

AH, Sargent JR, Thompson KD 1993
Terrestrial and fish oils affect phospholipid fatty acid composition, development of cardiac lesions, phospholipase activity and eicosanoid production in Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar).
Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 49(3):665-73

AH, Park MT, Sargent JR.1991.
High dietary linoleic acid affects the fatty acid compositions of individual phospholipids from tissues of Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar): association with stress susceptibility and cardiac lesion.
J Nutr. 121(8):1163-72

J. Gordon Bell2, John McEvoy3, Douglas R. Tocher, Fiona McGhee, Patrick J. Campbell* and John R. Sargent 2004
Replacement of Fish Oil with Rapeseed Oil in Diets of Atlantic Salmon (Salmo salar) Affects Tissue Lipid Compositions and Hepatocyte Fatty Acid Metabolism
The American Society for Nutritional Sciences

J.G. Bell1, D.R. Tocher1, B.M. Farndale1, A.H. McVicar2 and J.R. Sargent1 1999
Effects of essential fatty acid-deficient diets on growth, mortality, tissue histopathology and fatty acid compositions in juvenile turbot (Scophthalmus maximus)
Journal Fish Physiology and Biochemistry 1573-5168 Volume 20, Number 3 p263-277

SL Seierstad, TT Poppe, EO Koppang, A Svindland, G 2005
Influence of dietary lipid composition on cardiac pathology in farmed Atlantic salmon, Salmo salar L
Journal of Fish Diseases.

Those are my go-to references regarding garlic. (Most) Fish don't have the enzymes to break down the lipids found in terrestrial plants, so they end up getting stored in the body. So it's likely that even a tiny amount can be harmful over time as it will continue to be deposited rather than digested or allowed to pass through.
Click to expand...


When you say lipids are you referring to fats or something else? Just curious, the only thing I'm aware of that is stored/accumulates over time is mercury.
 
And back again. This is really only a passing interest in garlic but I thought to post what I have found. It appears the question is more relevant for SW fish. I did try searching for the articles but couldn't find links.

Garlic: What has been Studied Versus What has been Claimed by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

Hey MODS please consider making this post into a sticky! [Archive] - Reef Central Online Community

Post #13.

Battered Clown Fish - Page 2

Post #35

Garlic the truth - Page 2 - Marine Aquariums South Africa
 
trennamw said:
The health benefits of garlic are exceptionally well researched in multiple species.

But back to the OP ... How goes it?

Sitting upright on the bottom is normal but laying on a side is not. It's possible it's something you couldn't have helped. Bettas are not so delicate as to need extreme acclimation. What you did is fine.

A lot of us learn and get hooked on the hobby by having good and bad experiences with bettas. Meemo, Bob, Meemo 2, Bob 2, and Meemo 3 Led to my understanding of GH/KH/ph concerns. I have very soft water. A year later Bob 2 (or maybe 3) is doing well, he's even been through a few zero-acclimation emergency tank jumps and recovered from fin rot, and had a brush with very bad dosing of alkaline buffer (enough he writhed with discomfort when he went into his new tank the day I got him, poor guy).

But fish laying on the floor of the tank in the first month after coming home ... Usually sick in my experience. Often from water quality issues, even more often from being a unit of mass commerce.


Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.
Click to expand...

They are exceptionally well researched- and found to be false or unsupported by any evidence.
 
Delapool said:
When you say lipids are you referring to fats or something else? Just curious, the only thing I'm aware of that is stored/accumulates over time is mercury.
Click to expand...

Yes, lipids is in reference to fats. Fats can be stored, especially when they can't be broken down. In fact a similar process happens in people with high fructose corn syrup- but that's a whole different issue.
 
How does that work - would you have any links? I swear this will be my last post on garlic but do you have any links of papers? Interested. Below from second link.



------
Terrestrial plant lipids are well known to cause heart and liver lesions in marine fish. The problem with feeding terrestrial plant oils (not just garlic but any terrestrial plant oil) to reef fish is problematic due the nature of the lipids the fish do not possess the enzymes to digest them correctly and this leads to fatty deposits and serious pathological changes in the heart and liver of fish that are fed these lipids. Although these are not instantly fatal they cause chronic change to these organs and long term deterioration in the health of the fish. Granted much of this his work is done on farmed fish, but it is a well known phenomena and here are some of the research papers that detail this problem.
 
Umm.....so OP? How's your betta? Is he doing alright? You kinda left us hanging....


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