Fish Selector Wizard?

[LetterJ]

I bought a 20 gallon tank a couple of days ago and, while it's in the middle of a fishless cycle (glad I read that before just throwing fish in). I'm now digging through piles and piles of sites on species trying to figure out exactly what will go into this tank.

Rather than just asking one more time "what fish should I put in here", I'm wondering if there's a bit of software or a site that will let me select species by things like "minimum tank size" or exclude fish that "do best in brackish water". As it is, I seem to be seeing nothing but large lists of fish and I have ot pick through them one at a time only to find out time and time again that I need at least 50 gallons to even consider that species.

I guess because I'm a software/web developer, I tend to look for a software solution to this kind of narrowing down. I want to be able to query by minimum tank size, mature size, minimum count, etc. to work through the permutations and see the possibilities without bothering anyone else.

Does such a tool or site exist?

 

[krap101]

i highly doubt that... because most people dont have the time and money to make such a large program. they probably wont really make much money making it too.
maybe you could make one .

 

[Fishyfanatic]

The sheer amount of fish that would have to be included in that program, WOAH. If you could give us somewhat of a description of what you are looking for, we'd be glad to help. Point you in the right direction. For example:

Fewer larger fish
Many small fish
A couple large fish and a couple schools
Colors
Planted or Unplanted tank
Peaceful or Agressive
Any particular fish that really caught your attention

 

[Jchillin]

That would be database of over 2,000 catfish alone. It wont happen (spin the wheel, choose my fish). :?

 

[LetterJ]

Well, I wouldn't expect something like this to be exhaustive (ie to include all 2000 catfish). Most of the existing introductory resources aren't that exhaustive either. What I see all over the place is a series of listings like this:

Scientific Name: Xiphophorus maculatus
Family: Poeciliidae
Origin: Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico
Adult Size: 2 inches (5 cm)
Social: Peaceful, suitable for community tank
Lifespan: 4 years
Tank Level: Mid dweller
Minimum Tank Size: 10 gallon
Diet: Omnivore, eats most foods
Breeding: Livebearer
Care: Easy
pH: 7.0 - 8.2
Hardness: 10-25 dGH
Temperature: 64-77 F (18-25 C)

Essentially, these resources are already breaking things down into a series of categories with values. Given the above breakdown, querying that kind of data isn't a big deal and I just figured somebody might have already done so. In the above case, this fish should come up if I indicate that my tank is 20 gallons and I'm looking for peaceful fish or if I am looking for a mid-dweller.

I wouldn't necessarily expect that such a database would contain any more species than your average book or online reference. Covering most common species that are available in a typical local store would help the people most in need of such a tool (like me, just starting out).

Personally, what I'm after is unplanted, peaceful with some bright color. I saw a few Tequila Sunrise guppies this afternoon that caught my eye and I've always liked the look of fish with longer fins like the bettas, angel fish and the fancier guppies. I'm looking mostly at smaller fish, because at 20 gallons, moving into larger fish will severely limit the number I can handle in the space available.

 

[Jchillin]

Not disagreeing with you at all on this LetterJ.

The above example is for one fish with it's particular profile. Throw in the compatibility chart with this (unless you're going species only) and the database gets even bigger.

The producer's of such a site would need to charge a fee just to keep the site running. It's a great idea, but the likelyhood of it happening is slim.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

LetterJ- Where did you get that profile? I am looking for something just like that while stocking my 55 gal tank.

 

[TomK2]

Not that these are programs, but these are helpful sites:

http://www.elmersaquarium.com/h701elmers_freshwater_handbook.htm

and also the compatibility wizard:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/fwcompatibility_chart.cfm

For a list of sites that have fish info, I have assembled some links at:

http://home.comcast.net/~tomstank/tomstank_files/page0004.htm

Good luck!

 

[LetterJ]

The profile I posted came from:

http://www.aquariumpages.com/livebearers.htm

The above example is for one fish with it's particular profile. Throw in the compatibility chart with this (unless you're going species only) and the database gets even bigger.

The producer's of such a site would need to charge a fee just to keep the site running. It's a great idea, but the likelyhood of it happening is slim.

The only real difficulty is the time-consuming nature of either the data entry or gathering, which is greatly reduced if the data is already organized nicely.

Incidentally, I work with LOTS of data on a fairly regular basis. About 18 months ago, I built www.mncriminals.com, which contains all of the criminal convictions for my state and searches by real name, alias, etc. Building that entire site only took me about 3 days of work. Because of that, we can afford to make it free. My current project is for one of the US's biggest retailers tracking the movement of every carton and pallet they move through their distribution centers to 1100 retail stores. The amount of data we're talking about is actually pretty small. The question is more about how accessible it is or if it's available in a "digestible" format.

"Expense" as a reason for charging for this kind of thing is a pretty slim excuse in my book. Unless there's ongoing work (like moderating or writing articles), a site run by a database just isn't very expensive to run. Hosting that provides a *terabyte* of bandwidth a month runs under $75/month. Google ads often pay for that kind of cost with any reasonable amount of traffic (that's actually the hard part most of the time).

And, if the application is built correctly, it can start out with a few species and users can add additional as well as defining the incompatible/compatible dynamics. If this truly doesn't exist, I can see how I (or some of my contractors) could whip this up if it could get used often enough to justify it.

 

[Jchillin]

And, if the application is built correctly, it can start out with a few species and users can add additional as well as defining the incompatible/compatible dynamics. If this truly doesn't exist, I can see how I (or some of my contractors) could whip this up if it could get used often enough to justify it.

You will have done aquaria a definite service if you can pull this off. Forums such as this one has always had someone ask: "What should I stock my xx gal tank with?...I like small peaceful, colorful fish"

 

[Guest]

wow, what a great idea, and what money the guy who made that could make if he patented the idea... it would take a lot of time and work and research to get all of the info on the many types of fish, and then it would have to be updated yearly. But it would be an awesome resource, even for local fish stores.

 

[chasgood]

Wish I lived close to Elmers aquarium store. Great website. Bet the store is even better.

Here is all kinds of fish links.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=11504&highlight=

 

[Andos99]

LetterJ - If you could pull something like that off...that would be just incredible. I have no doubt, a site like that would generate a huge amount of traffic, as that is the most commonly pondered question when anyone starts a new tank.....what do I want to put in it?

 

[FMJnaX]

If LetterJ doesn't want to take this on, then I will. I'm a business application developer by profession, but wouldn't mind throwing together an on-line database with a user interface. I'll even have a feature to allow users to enter new fish profiles (to be verified before actual addition of course). And since I'm a nice guy, I'll even make it a free tool.

It would make a nice addition to the AA site eh? *hint, hint - a hosting solution.

LetterJ - let me know if you plan on tackling something like this. Perhaps we could work together? My strengths are C++, Java, Visual Basic, SQL Server, and ASP.

 

[talloulou]

I recommend browsing fish encylopedia type books. My favorite "The aquarium fish handbook. Dick Mills and Derek Lambert. It has good pictures, lists many freshwater and marine species, even many rarer ones that stores don't usually carry anyway. Plus it tells how big a tank they need full grown, what size they get, what they eat, and how they act behaviourly as well as how they will be other fish. The biggest problem with the book method is you find fish you like only to find they are very rare or completely unavailable locally. Although the book makes an excellent resource for taking to the store with you. Although it doesn't profile everything, for example there is no mention of the hillstream loach.

 

[talloulou]

Maybe fmjnax and letterj could work on developing this program together. It could probably make some money from advertising but what a great website to show clients as an example of your mad programming skills!

 

[FMJnaX]

...but what a great website to show clients as an example of your mad programming skills!

lol, no need on my part. I'm pretty secure in my environment. I don't have to compete for clients since my client is the end user of our corporation, which is well over 16,000 employees (soon to be over 20,000 with the next merger). In terms of cost savings/advoidence, in 2004 I hit $5.2 million per year. No need for me to boast and brag. 8) lol

Anyway, I can have the infrastructure up relatively quickly and then slowly add to the database. No need to hold off on a release because we don't have all the profiles loaded. Otherwise we would NEVER release. A couple of weeks, tops, and it will be up and running. I'm going to pull information from the public library books and what internet sites I can find. We'll have things like pictures, size, conditions, etc. You know, the basic profile.

 

[talloulou]

"A couple of weeks, tops, and it will be up and running. "

That would be awesome...but I won't hold you to it. LOL My husband is a programmer too and he is always talking about different design applications he would like to create and then never finds the time to get around to it. I guess after sitting in front of a computer at work all day its the last thing he wants to do in his spare time. I think he is holding out for that one great idea that would make tons of money so he could stop working. He does have a friend though who is doing quite well selling a program she designed to game makers. Something to do with easy costume changing.

 

[LetterJ]

I am taking it on, though would appreciate any assistance anyone wants to put forward.

I've already got hosting on one of my dedicated servers. Quite frankly, hosting the site will cost me less each month than my lunch did today, though I'll still put advertising/affiliate programs on the site to cover costs related to development, etc.

The tool will be both free (online) and free for download (the database and any other clients) under an open source license. Will be hosted at aquariumbuilder.com (the DNS hasn't likely propagated yet). A wiki will be going up tonight (for the HOWTO info and articles covering the basics of assembling a tank). As a wiki, anyone should be able to edit and create pages, hopefully resulting in better faster content. There will not be a forum (there are already enough of those). I'll update this thread until mailing lists, etc are set up and then future discussion can continue there.

What I'd like from the non-technical people:

1. I don't know nearly as much about fish as I do about web and application development. As such, the actual information that's really important needs to be pulled from the sea, so to speak. What information on each fish is critical to make a decision or calculate how many go into a tank. What information would you ask for about a fish to decide if and how many you can put into your tank.
2. Similarly for the characteristics of tanks that distinguish one from another.

Software plan:

1. Fish profiles. The actual measureable characteristics of each species and variety. Most of these bits are straightforward (minimum pH, maximum pH, freshwater, saltwater, adult size etc). Others, like some breeds being "dirty" can be reflected in a "effective inches" calculation to affect the 1 inch to 1 gallon formula. Some breeds should be measured more like 1.5 inches for each real inch of fish, etc. Once the fields are defined, I'll start seeding data and then open it up for wider data entry.
2. Fish compatibilities. Rated from -5 (will kill each other) to +5 (just short of capable of mating). I'd like for this to be statistically derived from real people's experiences.
3. Build a tank. Start with size, planted or not, aggressive/peaceful, small/large, etc. Will then allow users to "add to aquarium" from either the list overall or suggested fish. Incompatible fish should be highlighted. Each fish will start with a set compatibility and for each fish already in the aquarium, the relative compatibility will be calculated. This gives you the *most* incompatible fish, to show you the most effective way to restore harmony to your tank.
4. Tanks. I'd like users to be able to assemble both representations of real tanks as well as hypothetical tanks. These can then eventually be used to make suggested tanks.
5. Will look for user input at all points possible. Entering species, creating and saving tanks, rating the quality of the data, rating tanks, etc.

Technical details:
1. Was planning on using SQLite as the database. This is a nice way to make the database portable as a single file, easily downloaded, versioned, etc.
2. Was planning on using PHP on the application/site side of things.
3. The database will be first, with basic entry and reporting following and the more advanced features being added on over time.

 

[DeFeKt]

yoDa say: genius u are.
Use the Fish luke, use the fish

Looking forward to it guys.
will it have crustaceans? or am i dreaming?