Sand or gravel?

[Tinafina]

I been considering sand because they say you don't-shouldn't clean the sand due to the b bacteria that lies on the bottom. Is this true? Just simple WC and that's it. .?

 

[meegosh]

You should still remove wastes and uneaten food with your vacuum. Typically most people simply swirl the vac around above the sand and the detritus will be stirred up into the vacuum.

 

[ronnieroach]

UPDATE:

went to home depot, who didnt have pfs, saying it was seasonal .. i didnt dig the play sand so i went w/ legit aquarium sand..

washed it, added it, & once totally settled i started the filter.. everything was going great.. then, 20 mins in & my filter stopped working.. motor was still running just once it was filled it didnt overflow the water..

its a 20-40gal filter from walmart so i'm gonna bring it back for a new one, seeing its only a week old .. ( i currently have my 10-20gal on until i get to walmart in an hour or so )

WHY DID THIS HAPPEN THOUGH?!? sand in the filter maybe?? but again, my water was crystal when i turned it on

any & all help is appreciated

 

[jetajockey]

The Estes sand is very uniform and the perfect size. Something play sand is far from, but PFS is very close to. The Estes is also coated with a polymer/ceramic coating to prevent the silicates form causing a problem (brown algae). WAIT! Before anyone gets their underwear all knotted up over that: YES, I know that isn't always an issues and such and such said that form of silicate...and it glass is made from silicate...and on and on. BUT I have seen it happen with too many people too many times where their tank is fine, they change nothing but the substrate from gravel to a cheapo sand, and then have unbelievable brown algae problems right up until the day they breakdown and take the sand back out. Coincidence? If so that is a huge coincidence. Happens every time? Obviously not. But IMO why risk it, get stuck with effectively one color option (CALM DOWN! Yes, I know you can track down other colors of PFS if you try hard enough) for about the same cost as gravel and get a better product. The Estes also requires absolutely no cleaning at all. Cut the bag open and pour it in the tank.

Over the years I have seen many issues come up involving sands and a wide range or problems it can cause. However, IME that has everything to do with the type of sand and not sand in general. I have only ever encountered two problems with the sand I use and they re not even the sand's fault: 1-it can get in the filters IF cichlids decide it is fun to spit into the intakes. 2-If you use those driftwood mounted to slate decorations the slate blocks the oxygen from getting to the whole sandbed and creates those toxic hydrogen sulfide gas pockets you hear about. Obviously both of the issues are caused by other factors than the sand itself. Even with three inches of the sand I use I have not encountered toxic gas pockets, something I have seen happen in no more than an inch with other types of sand.

I want to clarify one thing: IF you do want to use a cheapo sand that isn't made for aquariums, pool filter sand seems to be the way to go because it is usually so uniform. From seeing people on forums and my own clients and customers, the PFS seems to cause fewer problems than play sand and other types.

I know it is a 'flaw' that my experience with PFS and the others is so limited, but I am thankful I found something so good when I first started using sand and didn't have to deal with tracking down exact types of cheapo sand, dealing with the problems that they really can cause (again, obviously not every time, but these issues do happen). And the color alone is more than enough for me to spend a little more to get a much better look, and my clients agree.

What about 3m colorquartz and its replacements? It's ceramic coated too, comes in a choice of different sizes, and comes in more colors than what you typically find in a LFS. It's also about half the price of 'aquarium' sand.

What/who defines something as 'aquarium' friendly anyway? What's the difference between branded aquarium sand and 3m colorquartz besides the price tag? It may come to a shock to some but the aquarium trade has forever been rebranding and relabeling things with a big price tag for the sake of being 'aquarium friendly', example: aquarium salt.


All said and done, I'll stick with the cheapo stuff, since it's the same stuff or better.

 

[ronnieroach]

Any ideas here?!?!?!?

update:

Went to home depot, who didnt have pfs, saying it was seasonal .. I didnt dig the play sand so i went w/ legit aquarium sand..

Washed it, added it, & once totally settled i started the filter.. Everything was going great.. Then, 20 mins in & my filter stopped working.. Motor was still running just once it was filled it didnt overflow the water..

Its a 20-40gal filter from walmart so i'm gonna bring it back for a new one, seeing its only a week old .. ( i currently have my 10-20gal on until i get to walmart in an hour or so )

why did this happen though?!? Sand in the filter maybe?? But again, my water was crystal when i turned it on

any & all help is appreciated

 

[jetajockey]

Take the filter apart and rinse the impeller and housing really well and see if it helps. How well did you rinse the sand before adding?

 

[Reygan2]

ok, now I'm paranoid. I have dw attached to slate. Do I need to worry about toxins being released? I just changed from gravel to pfs tonight and it looks fabulous. I didn't wait an hour before turning on my filters though. I rinsed the sand repeatedly until the water ran clear, and I did it slowly, only rinsing a small portion at a time. The water wasn't completely clear in the tank before I turned on my filters, but it just looked like air bubbles.

 

[ronnieroach]

i'm talking GOOD!! i washed it until the water was clear when i filled the bucket, then did it some more.. it settled in the tank within 10mins

i already returned the nonworking filter & got a replacement .. (very quick & easy at walmart; they didnt even check the box lol)

i also cut the intake(?) that goes into the tank so it was higher from the sand, only about an inch was cut off

new filter is working fine FOR NOW, i'm just worried its gonna happen again

if it does, i'll try your advice for sure.. thanks

 

[jetajockey]

ok, now I'm paranoid. I have dw attached to slate. Do I need to worry about toxins being released? I just changed from gravel to pfs tonight and it looks fabulous. I didn't wait an hour before turning on my filters though. I rinsed the sand repeatedly until the water ran clear, and I did it slowly, only rinsing a small portion at a time. The water wasn't completely clear in the tank before I turned on my filters, but it just looked like air bubbles.

Toxins released from what?

 

[jetajockey]

i'm talking GOOD!! i washed it until the water was clear when i filled the bucket, then did it some more.. it settled in the tank within 10mins

i already returned the nonworking filter & got a replacement .. (very quick & easy at walmart; they didnt even check the box lol)

i also cut the intake(?) that goes into the tank so it was higher from the sand, only about an inch was cut off

new filter is working fine FOR NOW, i'm just worried its gonna happen again

if it does, i'll try your advice for sure.. thanks

Putting a sponge over the intake pickup tube also helps prevent sand particles from getting sucked up, just for future reference.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Yes, I would take the slate off the driftwood and just use the driftwood, this will allow more oxygen to get to all the sand.

I have not tried the 3M stuff but I have heard it is the same as Estes.

Ronnie: which aquarium sand did you get?

 

[OBEYtheFISH]

ok, now I'm paranoid. I have dw attached to slate. Do I need to worry about toxins being released? I just changed from gravel to pfs tonight and it looks fabulous. I didn't wait an hour before turning on my filters though. I rinsed the sand repeatedly until the water ran clear, and I did it slowly, only rinsing a small portion at a time. The water wasn't completely clear, but it just looked like air bubbles.

Just run your fingers thru the sand every other day or during a pwc to release trapped gases
Sometimes even the fish move thru the sand & release the gases themselves

 

[OBEYtheFISH]

What about 3m colorquartz and its replacements? It's ceramic coated too, comes in a choice of different sizes, and comes in more colors than what you typically find in a LFS. It's also about half the price of 'aquarium' sand.

What/who defines something as 'aquarium' friendly anyway? What's the difference between branded aquarium sand and 3m colorquartz besides the price tag? It may come to a shock to some but the aquarium trade has forever been rebranding and relabeling things with a big price tag for the sake of being 'aquarium friendly', example: aquarium salt.

All said and done, I'll stick with the cheapo stuff, since it's the same stuff or better.

Hey jetajockey where can I get this 3m colorquartz? I saw 5015 Black-S Grade online & it looks good but idk where to buy it

 

[jetajockey]

Hey jetajockey where can I get this 3m colorquartz? I saw 5015 Black-S Grade online & it looks good but idk where to buy it

Try calling some industrial supply or pool supply places. I get mine from a place called Coastal for $25 per 50lb bag.



As far as the driftwood is concerned, I'd leave it attached to the slate. It's drilled to it for a reason, it probably floats. Plus its easy enough to move the sand to the side and put the slate on the bottom glass, so any potential gas pockets would form above it. Even still, the toxic gas pocket thing is debatable, I've done lots of soil and sand tanks and have had some bubble but it's never done anything other than cause some funk.

 

[OBEYtheFISH]

So you can find these in pool supply places?

 

[akagochi]

I have sand and have never had any filter issues. (eheim 2213 cannister filter, Aqueon 30). I do not reccomend the play sand because of the toxins that can be in it, plus you never really know what you might get with play sand, because it is such a broad range. I went with the 20 lb bag of aquarium sand they sell at Petco. will cost you about 16 bucks. they also have it in black. The way I look at it, is you may as well spend the little bit of extra money for things like substrate becaue it would be a pain in the arse to have to go back and change it later. On another note, if your lifestyle matches the easy maintenance of plastic plants, then go with that, but once you go live plants you don't go back!

 

[ronnieroach]

update: the new filters working fine & they all seem to be happy.. my rocks/plants are covered in sand but i'm guessing thats from the cories doing their thing .. i threw a long rock down to absorb the blow from the filter .. i just hope its not that its too powerful

i AM doing live plants in this tank but after sand & fish i've reached my weekly aquarium limit lol

heres a pic of the sand .. i kinda want to remove some & mix in black to bring out my fish's colors .. anyone agree / disagree w/ this idea??? i gotta see what it looks like first

 

[Fishguy2727]

Definitely add black. I prefer half black and half white, but solid black looks great too.

I don't think you need to take any out though, the live plants would love a little thicker substrate.

 

[ronnieroach]

yeah but w/ the 10gal & the 160gph filter, i dont want the sand too high.. one rock is basically covered in sand; its gotta be from the filter spout pushing out too hard..

i'm gonna try & make an addition to the lip that will carry the filter water out straighter / more toward the glass

& i think the black will def be added but i still wanna see what a half & half tank looks like lol

 

[OBEYtheFISH]

yeah but w/ the 10gal & the 160gph filter, i dont want the sand too high.. one rock is basically covered in sand; its gotta be from the filter spout pushing out too hard..

i'm gonna try & make an addition to the lip that will carry the filter water out straighter / more toward the glass

& i think the black will def be added but i still wanna see what a half & half tank looks like lol

You can attach some type of media from where the water comes out & hits the water to take out some of the current
I hope you understand what I'm saying lol its kinda confusing just saying it