Segmented worms - Please help

[jratuszn]

I have been battling tiny white worms in my tank for a few months. They aren't crawling on the glass, I ocassionally see them free-swimming in the water. I have heard them described on some sites as "whip worms" but I think this is a misnomer, as whip worms are a pretty pathogenic parasite, and my fish seem to be getting along fine with them. They just gross me out, and I want them gone.

I have tried repeated formalin treatments, which kill off a ton of the worms, but they keep coming back, even after extended treatments. These things grow to 2+ cm if I leave them be.

I saw one suggestion to try acetic acid (vinegar) at 1 tsp / 10 gal, but I am kindof wary as I don't want it to kill off my discus. I have also gotten recommendations to reduce feeding, but there is never any food left after I feed, and I do daily 30% wc's. I don't want to cut back and stunt my fish.

75 gal, Xp3, 5 discus btw 3-5"
Amm, Ites, 0, Nitrates <5, ph high 7's.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[greenmaji]

Can you QT the fish in case you have to take more drastic measures?

 

[jratuszn]

Eesh, QTing 5 discus is tough. Plus, i know a few of them eat the worms, (with no ill effects that I've seen) so there may even be eggs in their poop. This is all just guessing.

My tank is a barebottom, so anything I can do in QT, I can do in it. I know these things hide out in my filter, cuz whenever I dose Formalin, I inject it right into the filter intake line. I see tons of worms stream out of the return. I've even tried disconnecting the filter and soaking the parts and media overnight in concentrations that would nuke my fish, and bleaching all of the hoses. Still didn't work.

I'm kinda shooting from the hip with the formalin, that seems to work the best. I also tried Praziquantel, which is supposed to get rid of all kinds of worms, but that didn't do a thing, even after 2 weeks of treatment at twice the dose.

I was hoping I'd find someone who had a similar experience and beat it.

-J

 

[An t-iasg]

Wow, Praziquantel didn't do anything? 8O

Here's a med that may work:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4760&N=2004+113018

You could also PM BrianNY if he doesn't pop in here.

 

[jratuszn]

Tried fluke tabs too. Also a no-go. I think the problem is that I kill 99% of the live worms in the tank, but the eggs somehow survive. not sure though, because even with long treatments of formalin, they still come back eventually.

I don't want to treat long term with fluke tabs, they're pretty rough on my fish. Formalin is ok on them, but I really don't like to handle it, and it just hasn't been working.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Guest]

I would clean out the entire tank, bleach it out, scrub everything, dechlor it and set it back up. Thats the only way i can think of that will get rid of all the worms. The only thing is, you will need somewhere for your discus while you recycle your tank.

 

[oxymoron]

Isn't it possible that they are just nematodes or planaria?

 

[jaajaa40]

I had/have nematodes. Floating thin white worms, 1/4" or less, that kind of wip into a "c" shape and wiggle around when they are free floating after I disturbed the gravel. I never seen them on a fish. Before I learned they are ok to have I once tried three different chemicals over a month, then tore down my tank and bleached it, recycled it, put the fish back in, and a moth latter I had nematodes again. I think the only problem the fish had was putting up with my attempts to get rid of them. TankGirl said they are OK so they are OK with me.

Now I have fish small enough to eat them now and with a regular water changing I hardly ever see them. Once in the last year I had a little too much waste in the tank and they popped up in numbers, but were gone again after the next water change. I read somewhere you should clean your tank and then starve it of food for 4/5 days to drastically reduce the numbers.

Please respond when you figure out what you have and with your experience so we can read it. I am very interested.

 

[TankGirl]

What about heat and salt? These worms just cannot tolerate salt, and I am not sure how much the discus can handle but I am sure they can handle one tablespoon/10gals, one per 5gals would be even better. You likely already have the temp a bit higher than typical tanks, but if you can get it up to 86 that would work well too, speeding up the life cycle of the worm and thereby getting the eggs to hatch out, possibly keeping the adults from laying more eggs.

I agree that they are likely not harmful, and I also completely agree that they are unsightly and need to be eradicated. I would not want them in there either! I have not heard of such an infestation in a bare-bottom tank, so keep us posted.

 

[jratuszn]

They definitely aren't planaria - planaria are a flat worm with an arrow-shaped head. These things look just like an earthworm, except they are white, and the largest I've seen max out around 2 cm (1/2"). They don't crawl on the glass, they are just free-swimming in the water. My biggest concern is that, while they don't seem to be bothering my fish, I don't know what they are, and they could be potentially hazardous to them, and to me. I always wash my hands after they're in the tank, but you never know.

My tank stays around 86 all the time. I'll do some wcs and try the salt. I'll keep everyone updated. Thanks,

Jeff

 

[TankGirl]

No matter what kind of FW worm they are, they definitely won't like salt, so my money is on hypersalinity therapy.

For anyone who has not used salt before, I use sea salt and dissolve the entire amount in a large pitcher of dechlorinated water that I have heated. Once it is cool the salt is dissolved and not visible in the pitcher of water. Then I add that slowly over the course of about 3 days to acclimate the fish to it. Add salt only to water change water, and not to water added to replace evaporation.