Im sorry - a cycling question! ):

[squishyaimz]

Hey everyone,

Im really really sorry for a cycling question, and im not sure if im posting in the right place so Im sorry for that too!

Im a bit worried my cycle has crashed...

Axolotl tank. No axolotls yet.
API master testing kit.
beginning of week 4.
Heater
ammonia dosing with dr timms
PH 8.2
Tap water is 80ppm nitrates.

So my ammonia started dropping a few days ago , from 4 to 0. Great. I kept dosing up to 4. My nitrites stayed the same (5+ since week one, no change at all)
yesterday my ammonia went up to 0.25, and this morning up to 1. (nitrites still the same again)
I tested my nitrates and got a reading of 5! (first time ive tested nitrates since week 2)

We were told by someone to do a water change last week to get rid of high nitrites and high nitrates which we did, but in the process brought up some decaying fish flakes from day 1 of the cycle before i changed to actual ammonia ( Cause of the ammonia spike!?)
Anyway I did a 10% water change while getting rid of some of those fish flakes just now, and tested my nitrates are still at 5!?
(I dont know how this is possible when my tap water is at 80 and ive just added 10% new water!?) I DEFINITELY shook the nitrate bottle and did it properly - I even retested and got the same result.

Please someone help me - Im getting extremely mixed advice on my axolotl group - people telling me to do water changes, some telling me to wait and im not getting a clear answer. HAS MY CYCLE CRASHED and what do I need to do!?

Thank you for your help and im sorry again!Please dont eat me!

 

[Aiken Drum]

If you are dosing ammonia and it is dropping you havent crashed your cycle.

When you say your ammonia is rising, is that without dosing? Or are you dosing but it isnt dropping as quickly as it was previously?

A 10% water change wont change your water parameters to any noticable degree. 5ppm nitrate will drop to 4.5ppm if the new water is clean. If you are adding 80ppm of nitrate water then it goes upto 13ppm (i think). You cant really differentiate between these readings, the test isnt that accurate.

Your tap water is 80ppm nitrate? Really? Contact your water company to get an accurate nitrate test result. How do you have 5ppm in the tank and 80ppm from the tap?

You dont need to be redosing ammonia to 4ppm. Redosing to 2ppm is fine.

You will get different opinions on whether doing water changes is needed during a fishless cycle. I can only give you mine and someone else may well come along and tell you different. I dont think there is a definite answer.

I would do water changes to keep your water parameters within readable levels. I just prefer to know what they are, rather than seeing nitrite and nitrate off the charts. But, i dont believe that high nitrite and nitrate affect the cycle, so water changes arent necessary just my preference. I have certainly cycled tanks with high nitrite and nitrate but there is probably no definitive evidence of what levels will crash a cycle, if at all.

If you could just clarify how much ammonia you are dosing and how often, and how quickly it is/was dropping. You should be dosing to 2ppm whenever it drops below 1ppm. When you can dose 2ppm ammonia and after 24 hours you are seeing 0ppm ammonia and nitrite you are cycled.

 

[squishyaimz]

Your tap water is 80ppm nitrate? Really? Contact your water company to get an accurate nitrate test result. How do you have 5ppm in the tank and 80ppm from the tap?

You dont need to be redosing ammonia to 4ppm. Redosing to 2ppm is fine.

It could be 40-80ppm yeah for tap water! (obviously those colours are very similiar!)
Also yeah thats what im confused about - I dont know how it could suddenly be 5ppm?... I did a 75% water change last week as someone advised it to get rid of high nitrites but ... added my 40-80ppm water so ... I dont know.. ugh!

I have been dosing up to 4ppm ammonia every 24 hours - it was dropping to 0 ppm since last thursday, yesterday was 0.25 and today was 1ppm. Nitrites havent changed (still off the charts at least, they could be dropping but cant tell?)
My ammonia is definitely still dropping with a 24 hour period but not as much as i was last thursday when it was dropping to 0.
I also did the 50/50 tap water/tank water nitrite test to see if i could get a readable nitrite test last week and i still couldnt read it (it was above 5 for sure)

 

[Aiken Drum]

So previously you where dosing 4ppm and it dropped to 0ppm after 24h? Then you was dosing to 4ppm and it dropped to 0.25ppm? Now you are dosing to 4ppm and it is dropping to 1ppm in 24h? Your ammonia to nitrite cycle is still there but seems to be slowing. As you say stirring up your fishfood may have added some additional ammonia, and high ammonia can kill off bacteria (or so i understand). I would cut back on the ammonia dosing to 2ppm.

Nitrite to nitrate stage normally takes longer than the ammonia to nitrite stage. And it doesn't take a lot of ammonia to produce a lot of nitrite. 1ppm ammonia to 2.7ppm nitrite. So 4ppm ammonia will come out to over 10ppm nitrite. For info 1ppm ammonia to 2.7ppm nitrite to 3.6ppm nitrate presuming fully cycled with nothing else acting on it (like plants).

I really dont understand how your nitrate is falling from your tap water baseline. Plants take up nitrate, but it would take a very heavily planted tank to take up all that. There are also products that claim to take up nitrate but ive never heard of them working that well. Are you sure there is nitrate at those levels on your tap water? I would double check if you havent already. If that really is the case i can't help you as to why. Your water company should be able to give you a more reliable test result than a home test kit can.

 

[squishyaimz]

So previously you where dosing 4ppm and it dropped to 0ppm after 24h? Then you was dosing to 4ppm and it dropped to 0.25ppm? Now you are dosing to 4ppm and it is dropping to 1ppm in 24h? Your ammonia to nitrite cycle is still there but seems to be slowing. As you say stirring up your fishfood may have added some additional ammonia, and high ammonia can kill off bacteria (or so i understand). I would cut back on the ammonia dosing to 2ppm.

Are you sure there is nitrate at those levels on your tap water? I would double check if you havent already.

Correct with the ammonia! I will start dosing to 2 instead of 4

Ive just done another tap water nitrate test and its come out a bit more orange than before. Its possibly 20ppm. Ive always done tests at night before and therefore had no natural lighting so looks much darker. after looking closely it looks more orange than i thought it was when I first started, so ill look properly tomorrow. Still doesnt quite explain the drop to 5ppm though?

 

[Aiken Drum]

You could skip a redose day or 2. Or cut back on ammonia redosing down to a smaller amount, say 0.5ppm or 1ppm. This would give your system chance to process out some nitrite without having more being added in through your ammonia and allow your nitrite to nitrate bacteria to catch up a little to your ammonia to nitrite bacteria.

Skipping a day wont affect anything, bacteria wont die off in a day or 2 if its food is cut off/reduced. You can always increase dosing again once your nitrite stage has caught up.