20 Gallon Limitations

[CluelessInNY]

Having this small tank is going limit me tremendously. Any ideas as to how many fish and how many pounds of live rock I can use? I have my damsel in there. I'm afraid I don't have much room for more Do crabs and shrimp count in the overall bio-load?

 

[cmor1701d]

You will ber quite limited in the fish stocking area, but you can add quite a few corals if you have the filtration and lighting for them. Shrimp and crabs do not count towards the bioload.

A reef tank has 1½ - 2 pounds of LR per gallon of capacity, or 30-40 pounds in your situation.

How long has this tank been set up?
Are you cycling the tank with the damsel?
If so, please attempt to bring it back to the store till you have cycled the tank using the fishless method (see the articles section on this forum).

 

[CluelessInNY]

You will ber quite limited in the fish stocking area, but you can add quite a few corals if you have the filtration and lighting for them. Shrimp and crabs do not count towards the bioload.

A reef tank has 1½ - 2 pounds of LR per gallon of capacity, or 30-40 pounds in your situation.

How long has this tank been set up?
Are you cycling the tank with the damsel?
If so, please attempt to bring it back to the store till you have cycled the tank using the fishless method (see the articles section on this forum).

HI cmor,

Unfortunately, yes...I am torturing a poor little damsel as I cycle my tank. I just started the process 4 days ago, and the ammonia levels are pegged quite high in just those few days already. I have to confess I hate the concept of torturing a fish for the cycling, but I am also not happy about starting over with live rock. I am leaning toward bringing back the damsle and starting all over again the more humane way.

I also dreamt of having at least one clownfish in my tank, and I understand the damsel and the clown won't get along well if I intro the clown after cycling. Is this true? With my 20 gallon, I intend to have at most 3 fish....I'd like at least to have the type of fish I want instead of being so limited.

 

[mandown123]

is it really torturing the fish tho? unless the ammonia is really high? my clowns look very happy and they are cycling.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Yes, it's torture.

There is absolutely no reason why folks need to cycle with fish, regardless of what bunk a LFS will say. When there's a better way that does not involve the use of fish, it's torture in my book.

 

[CluelessInNY]

I agree Kurt. he is breathing fast and furious. If/when I buy the live rock today in place of the fish, do I need to dump all the water and substrate and start again?

 

[mandown123]

i dont think you need to dump the water. It is already cycling. In the future I wont use fish but I have already pledged to keep a close watch on my levels and their health

 

[melosu58]

Cycle your salt tank

 

[CluelessInNY]

I feel really silly. I just went back the pet shop and the expert guy there who set me up in the first place said I had bought "live sand"(???) already and that could've cycled my tank. Also, he is more than happy to take back my little damsel whenver I like and swap it for a clown fish once I have cycled my tank in 2-3 weeks. Does any of that sound right?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Live sand "could have" cycled the tank... but it obviously didn't.

Cycling is the process of building up bacteria to meet the bioload needs of your tank. Live sand won't "cycle" a tank really, but it will provide an initial bacterial population that *may* reduce the length of your cycle. It all depends on how "live" the sand was.

In your other post, you say your ammonia levels are "high". That means the tank is cycling. The live sand may help it happen quicker, but you're still seeing an ammonia spike. Next will be the nitrite spike.

 

[CluelessInNY]

Live sand "could have" cycled the tank... but it obviously didn't.

Cycling is the process of building up bacteria to meet the bioload needs of your tank. Live sand won't "cycle" a tank really, but it will provide an initial bacterial population that *may* reduce the length of your cycle. It all depends on how "live" the sand was.

In your other post, you say your ammonia levels are "high". That means the tank is cycling. The live sand may help it happen quicker, but you're still seeing an ammonia spike. Next will be the nitrite spike.

Thanks Kurt. Yes, the ammonia is high right now for sure. I am changing some of the water (2 gallons out of 20), so I am adding new saltwater, although I was told I didn't "have to".

 

[cmor1701d]

If you have a fish in the tank and ammonia tests show a level above zero you need to remove the fish a/o do a partial water change. 2 galons is only a 10% change in a 20 gallon tank. You should be doing 20% -30% changes once or even twice a day to keep the levels acceptable. Yes, that will prolong the cycle. Or you could let the fish die and then leave it in the tank to get the tank cycled. At that point it's the same as a raw cocktail shrimp. Sorry if that sounds cruel, but please read below.

From various sources...
Ammonia even at low levels will burn the gills of fish and choke off their oxygen supply.

Next comes nitrites which prevent the blood from carrying oxygen. Brown blood disease occurs in fish when water contains high nitrite concentrations. Nitrite enters the bloodstream through the gills and turns the blood to a chocolate-brown color. Hemoglobin, which transports oxygen in the blood, combines with nitrite to form methemoglobin, which is incapable of oxygen transport. Brown blood cannot carry sufficient amounts of oxygen, and affected fish can suffocate despite adequate oxygen concentration in the water. This accounts for the gasping behavior often observed in fish with brown blood disease, even when oxygen levels are relatively high.
Nitrates are harmless to fish in low doses (under 40ppm).

 

[Innovator]

Cmor, although the facts you give are correct it should be noted that even though marine fish are susceptible to NO2 poisoning, it is uncommon due to Chloride and possibly other factors such as overall health status, previous ailments, D.O., etc. Studies have shown that marine fish can survive at over 100ppm of NO2 without incident. NO3 is also reasonably nontoxic to marine fish and elasmobranches even over 100ppm (have seen many elasmobranch aquaria way over 300ppm without incident). Most of the time, ime, elevated NH3 concentrations ("new tank syndrome" during cycling) can have acute toxicity effects by causing respiratory distress due to fusion of the gills or "ammonia burn."

Overall, I do agree with others to return the fish (depending on NH3 measurement, damage may already be irreversible) and cycle thoroughly before continuing.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

...

Overall, I do agree with others to return the fish (depending on NH3 measurement, damage may already be irreversible) and cycle thoroughly before continuing.

Since this is the "Getting Started" section, this seems to be the important point to hammer home.

 

[cmor1701d]

I did not want to get into the upper limits of what can be done in a 'Getting Started' area. I have seen some of the research you speak of, but do not want to rely on that when starting a new tank. I would like to see a tank properly cycled before adding any livestock. Even using fully cured LR I would like to see some ammonia added to cause a mini-cycle just to be sure the tank can handle a new increased bioload. It should only take 2 weeks for that to happen.

I won't even start with the fish have no feelings of pain due to their brain/nervoous system. I just want MY livestock to be as healthy as possible. I have personally witnessed the curative effects of daily 10% pwc's helping diseased fish recover in both fw and sw. But this is way off topic for this thread.