Amonia out of control.....

[Rayfish]

Hi everyone,

I am in desperate need of help. I have a 20 Gallon fresh water fish tank, and have 4 tropical fish all less than one inch in it. My tank is 5 weeks old. I have 3 plants in it and an aerator. I have lost 6 fish already!!!!! All due to high amonia levles.... 4PPM.

I have done everything in the book. I have tried the Amonia Remover from Topfin. I have done 10-15 % water changes on a weekly basis. I have reduced feeding to once a day... and even then, i am now feeling guilty my fish are starving. The good news is that one of my fish had a baby, and it seems to be doing fine.

However need to sort out amonia levels so i can add some more fish. My kids love the fish and would love to see more. however i am So scared the amonia levels are too high, and don't want to loose any more fish.

I have read on line, and have seen the following soutions:

1. 50% water change every 3 or four days. (My concern is that this will shock the fish.)
2. Stop feeding for 2 days. ( my concern is that they will starve.)
3. Add Amonia Remover. ( i have been doing that already and it does NOTHING!!!)

So i am at a loss. Please can someone help.

Here are some facts about my tank as of this blog.

Nitrate and Chlorine levels are safe. (0)
Alkalinity is LOW.
Acidity is below 6.2 (off the chart - i am using a Jungle quick dip test kit.)


Please advise.

Thanks

 

[mfdrookie516]

Welcome to AA

If you dont mind, i have a couple questions for you, as well as some statements.

1- How long has the tank been set up?
2- What kind of filter do you have on it?
3- What is your maintenance routine (water changes, filter cleaning, etc)?

Now, dont use any of the ammonia removing products. Instead, do 50% water changes as often as necessary (twice a day if you have to)... dont worry about shocking the fish, im sure they'll be super happy about having clean water (just make sure to use water thats the same temp as the tank and use dechlor). Get a liquid test kit. API makes a good kit that covers everything you need to test for (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, and high range ph)... You need to start by doing a 50% pwc asap, ammonia is very deadly to fish, you need to get it as close to 0 as possible. Im going to assume that the tank is not cycled, if you dont know what that means, the links in my signature should clear that up for you. Last, fish can go for days without eating. I feed mine every other day, sometimes ill skip a day and make it 3 days. Once you answer those questions, i think we can help you figure out whats going on and how to fix it

 

[jsoong]

Ray, we will help you get through this! You have come to the right place!

You have a cycling tank, and that is the reason for the ammonia. If you are not familiar with the nitrogen cycle, read up on it on the link at mfd's sig line. This will help you make sense of the discussion.

When you have fish in an uncycled tank, it is imperative that you keep the ammonia below 0.5 at all times. Or you will have fish death ....

The only reliable way of reducing ammonia is with water changes. You do as much as needed to reduce the ammonia. When you are looking at 4 ppm, I would start with a 75% pwc. Then 50% daily or even twice a day to keep the level from rising. <Eventually, the cycling bacteria will be established in your tank & you can reduce your water changes to once a week .... but that will be a few weeks down the road.>

You will not shock the fish with water changes - provided that the water is parameter & temperature matched. I assume you are using tap water, so there should be little parameter drift. Just make sure you dechlorinate the water, and check that the temperature is within a degree or so & the fish will thank you for the clean water. <To further reduce any possibility of shock, put the new water in slowly .... don't dump the 75% in in one go, take a tubing & siphon it in over 10-15 minutes. >

Feed lightly in the meantime. Fish will not starve without food for 1 or 2 days. However, I would suggest a single daily feeding of *small* amount of food. This ensures more steady release of ammonia so you can manage the pwc easier. <You won't have the ammonia bouncing up & down so once you find a proper pwc schedule, you can stick to it without change.>

Ammonia binders are emergency stop-gaps. The don't "remove" ammonia, just bind them so it is not toxic. The ammonia will still need to be removed by pwc or your bio-filter. The effect of the binding only lasts 24 hrs or so .... so you have to keep dosing or the ammonia will come out of the bound state & cause trouble for your fish. Although some people have had success establishing the cycle doing daily dosing of ammonia binders, I think removing the ammonia with pwc's is safer.

Finally, the test stripes are not too accurate, you do need a liquid kit to keep tract of the tank during cycling. <BTW, your typical test kit/stripes cannot tell the difference between bound & unbound ammonia, if you are going to rely on ammonia binder, I suggest you get a salicylate test kit (salt water) to keep track of your ammonia.>

 

[jessibell]

I have heard several people on this forum say that ammonia reducers are useless. I put some guppy fry an a tiny little tank that i thought was cycled (but I was dumb) and had to cycle the tank with them in it. It was really frusterating but it finally worked. I changed half the water every day, sometimes twice per day, and the filter needed a sponge in it that was never changed or cleaned (only periodically rinsed in tank water) to hold the bacteria. I think it helps if the water is aerated as well, since the bacteria need oxygen to grow.

I ended up only loosing the odd fry here and there, so if fry can survive it, hopefully yours can to. The water just needs to be changed constantly and you can't skip a day or you will have dead fish. I just recently learned this a couple months ago and it has made fishkeeping so much less myserious!

 

[Rayfish]

Wow that was fast

Hi guys,

Thank you sooooo much for your advice. I get a very clear and concise message from both of you. I will change the water probably 75% and slow down on feeding.

MFDROOKIE: to answer your questions.

1. Tank has been set up for 2 months. I did a complete water change 1 month ago, but still lost 4 fish!!!
2. I have a Topfin filter.... the one that came with the tank - i bought it from Petsmart all inclusive.
3. I dont really have a maintenance routine other than, change the filter once a month, and check the Amonia levels (with strips) about every 4th day. I have changed the water about 15% every 2 weeks.

I hope that helps you understand my tank better. As for assuming my tank is not cycled.... difficult to say, coz the same water ( at least 80% of it) has been in the tank since the full water change i did about a month ago.

JSOONG: thank you for your prompt reply. Again, you seem to echo MFDROOKIE's comments and i i will keep you posted.

BTW - i feel so silly - i just installed one of those "LIVE TESTERS" for amonia which are supposed to tell you live readings of Amonia levels. Cost me $17!! Should i just return it and get the liquid tests and use those after doing my water changes.

Also, i have some plants in the tank. Do i have to many. I have three.

Last question... what about all the "unconsumed food" that sits on the bottom. Should i be concerned with that. Do i need to "clean that out" with my water change?

Thanks

 

[mfdrookie516]

You should get either a gravel vac or a python (or off brand) water changing system. Either will do it, but basically you use the tube to suck the detrius off the substrate. You shouldnt have any uneaten food, which you can work on that im sure. I would take back the live tester, but thats just my opinion. A good liquid test kit will give you accurate (at least accurate enough for us) and consistent results. Make sure that when you clean your tank and filter, you are careful to conserve that beneficial bacteria that the links in my signature cover. Dont replace your filter cartridge, rinse it out in a bucket of old tank water when you do your weekly water change (yes weekly, i recommend a 50% weekly water change, though smaller weekly amounts can be sufficient). As for the plants, it depends on what kind, but if theyre suitable for the tank, then, imo, you cant have too many Its all about what you want there. BTW, water contains little to no nitrifying bacteria, its all in the substrate, surfaces of decor, and filter. So, having the same water means nothing really, its all about the bacteria, which if you're chaning your filter cartridge once a month, could be why you're seeing such high ammonia levels. And sorry for answering your questions from the bottom up, i didnt realize it until i just read through my reply

 

[jessibell]

Well, everyone will tell you that you can't go wrong with liquid test kits

And they will probably tell you never to change the filter cartridge in your filter, just rinse it. Unless the plants are dying and rotting, I don't think they will be a problem (correct me if wrong folks)

Try to feed them just enough so that there will be very little if no food left on the bottom. It will rot and make ammonia. I was surprised how little food fish actually need.