Aren't Rocks....Just Rocks??

[Shadowraven]

Well geeze.

I have a paleontologist friend that I'm sure that I can get to come and read the thread. She may give a general description of the rocks that we're looking for, maybe. I know that the vinegar test isn't fool proof.

I've known her all my life, and I don't know why I didn't think of her sooner.

I have just completed writing a page for the aquarium portion of my website that covers this exact topic. I started on it due to a discussion in a another thread about preparing rocks for a tank. I'll be posting an excerpt of that page about rock preparation on the forum to cover the points of that post. But the full page should be up on my site tomorrow with photos. If it would help you a I can send you the link so you can use that page as a beginning reference to id your rocks.

Geology is my first love too, so I may be able help you id anything you find.

 

[Irish.OG87]

The bottom line though is if the rocks fizz from puttin vinegar on them they are no good right? Cos they are the ones that leach all the minerals in your water correct?

 

[Shadowraven]

The bottom line though is if the rocks fizz from puttin vinegar on them they are no good right? Cos they are the ones that leach all the minerals in your water correct?

Normally yes. But that test only works on Carbonate type rocks. There are others that don't work too well in an aquarium that won't react to that test at all. Rocks containing ferric substances like pyrites in them being a good example. Many of them are Carbonate rocks, not all of them.

 

[mfdrookie516]

The bottom line though is if the rocks fizz from puttin vinegar on them they are no good right? Cos they are the ones that leach all the minerals in your water correct?

Not really IMO. If you have a pH of 7.8 or higher already, chances are rocks aren't going to effect it. If you're trying to buffer up your pH, then you want them to 'fizz'.

Also, if the rocks have absorbed fertilizers, pesticides, herbicieds, etc... the vinegar won't show that. But, the resulting dead fish will.

 

[Shadowraven]

Not really IMO. If you have a pH of 7.8 or higher already, chances are rocks aren't going to effect it. If you're trying to buffer up your pH, then you want them to 'fizz'.

Also, if the rocks have absorbed fertilizers, pesticides, herbicieds, etc... the vinegar won't show that. But, the resulting dead fish will.

Ditto, about the toxins they can contain.

What you said about a higher pH can hold true. I used them in a aquarium before I knew better and the pH an gH went up quite a bit. I don't remember the exact numbers anymore, but I knew that I didn't want to try that again with regular fish. I'd do it in a hard water tank with something like mollies though.

 

[kurtyboh]

the toxins is part of the reason why its a bad idea to use rocks from a landscaping company, they use machines to dig up and get to their rocks and it doesn't matter to them if a film of oil or such is on it...
also just because your rocks haven't exploded doesn't mean that you haven't been just lucky... even slow heating the wrong rock can cause it to explode.

 

[Tim Wheatley]

Hi everyone. I'm still doing research and trying to plan out a new tank. I have nothing purchased yet, but am getting closer. Been thinking about rocks, gravel, sand....you know, the stuff on the bottom. Today while I was at a lfs I looked at the stuff, and WOW, expensive! What makes "aquarium" rocks special? Anything?

Can I use rocks from like a landscaping place? I've heard that rocks from a landscaping place will screw up my water as they will leach minerals and stuff....well what makes aquarium rocks not do that? I am just confused. Can someone explain?

Also, if I am thinking smaller fish like Tetra and Platys is there a type or size rocks to look for?

All my tanks use pond stones and pea gravel from a hardware store. You can spend under $5 on something which from the pet store would be hundreds.

 

[Shadowraven]

Well I did the research I said I would and loach is definitely right and I was initially wrong... and lucky in the past. ROCKS CAN EXPLODE WHEN HEATED. Couldn't find too many reliable sources about this on aquaria sights so I had to turn to other sources. The Boy Scouts. They use heated rocks all the time to cook with, so they can be heated safely. But you have to be VERY careful about it.

The other sources I found were various scientific articles about rocks.

Below follows instructions about how to prepare rocks for the aquarium excerpted from my website. It was put together after completing the research I said I would for this thread.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Any of the rocks that we find in rivers, lakes, ponds or other natural landscapes can come with other problems besides the one’s we discussed above. These rocks can come loaded with parasites, bacteria, fungus or other organisms that can infest our tanks with unwanted visitors. In addition to these organic pests, rocks can be contaminated by pesticides, herbicides or other toxins that might kill our fish outright. So it is imperative that we prepare them properly. This is one of the reasons that I like boiling any rocks I find. Boiling will help to remove most of the toxins that may be in them. I would still avoid using any rocks that you know to be contaminated with toxins.

WARNING: BOILING OR HEATING ROCKS CAN POTENTIALLY BE VERY DANGEROUS. HEATED ROCKS CAN EXPLODE IF THEY ARE NOT HEATED OR PREPARED PROPERLY. CARE MUST BE EXERCISED IF YOU ATTEMPT TO DO THIS. IF YOU FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS BELOW, YOU SHOULD BE SAFE. BUT, YOU MUST FOLLOW THEM EXACTLY!! IF THE ROCKS AREN'T DRIED OUT BEFORE USE, IT WON'T MATTER HOW SLOWLY THAT YOU HEAT THEM. THE WATER TRAPPED INSIDE WILL STILL TURN TO STEAM AND CAUSE THE ROCK TO EXPLODE!

There are 2 main ways to prepare rocks for the aquarium, the chemical and thermal methods. Both methods require the rock to be prepared in the same way before the sterilization process can begin.

Scrub the rock thoroughly with a brush bought specifically for this purpose. Don’t use a brush that has been used for anything else. You could end up scrubbing chemicals INTO the rock if you do. A potato brush is a good kind of brush to buy for this. Don’t use any kind of soap or chemical to clean the surface with as they can remain in the rock. Use only clean, clear water. Soft water is better to use than hard, but it doesn’t really matter too much what you use.

At this point you need to decide which method you are going to use to sterilize your rock.

The chemical method is faster, but doesn’t penetrate beyond the outer layers of the rock. It comes with some potential risks to your fish since some of the bleach used may remain on the rock. This can potentially harm your fish if the bleach is not completely rinsed away before adding the rock to your tank.

The thermal method takes longer and will do a better job of sterilizing the rock for your tank, as the heat will penetrate all the way through the rock. But it comes with some potential risks for you. If not properly prepared, the rock can explode. This may injure you and will certainly damage anything you are heating it on if it happens.

Now it’s time to sterilize our rocks!

Chemical Sterilization

Take a bucket and fill it with enough cool water to cover the rocks, but not so much it will overflow when you add the rock. Do not use warm water, it will cause the bleach to evaporate and defeat the purpose of soaking it in the first place.

Add 1-2 capfuls of bleach to the water in the bucket. Add a little more if it is much larger than 3 gallons.

Soak the rock for about a day in this solution

Rinse the rock THOROUGHLY. Scrubbing it with water flowing over it is a good idea here. The goal is to clean the rock until you can barely detect the odor of bleach. It’s better if you can’t smell any, but the sensitivity of your nose may have diminished from the odor of all the bleach water.

Soak the rock in a bucket again with at least 3 times the amount of water conditioner you would normally add to similar volume of water for about 3 hours.

Add the rock to your aquarium!

Thermal Sterilization

Once the rock has been cleaned and scrubbed place it somewhere warm and dry for at least a week. Placing a thermal pad under it can speed this process. This will allow the rock to dry out as much as possible. We are trying to remove as much of the water from the rock as possible to reduce the possibility of a steam explosion occurring during the boiling process.

Now that your rock has dried out, set-up a large stock pot with enough water to cover the rock and place it on a heat source. You can do this on the stove or outside with a propane stove. Boiling rocks can sometimes release unpleasant odors and some people prefer to do this outside.

Place the rock into the water BEFORE you begin applying any heat to it. It is VERY important that the rocks heats up slowly along with the water. This allows the heat to remain even throughout the rock.

Boil the rock for at least an hour adding water as needed.

After the hour has passed, let the rock and water cool BEFORE you remove them.

Rinse the rocks off a final time in tap water with a light brushing.

Place the rocks in your aquarium!

Thermal Method Variation

This is a faster method of preparing rocks, but potentially dangerous. It is offered as an option if you don’t feel comfortable with the other two. You will need a good thermometer so you can monitor this process closely. You can heat the rocks and water 180°F for a 2-3 hours. Make sure that the temperature does not rise above 180. That is hot enough to kill most disease organisms. Continue to add water as needed. You need to stay nearby to ensure that the water DOES NOT BOIL!

Wait until the rock and water has completely cooled before removing them.

Rinse the rock off under the tap with a light brushing.

Place the rock into your tank.

This thermal method may not as sure as the other, but is offered as an option to those who are uncomfortable with the idea of boiling or using chemicals. The author has yet to try this himself, but has heard of it being done. I can offer no guarantees of its safety or viability, but the theory is sound and should work.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was asked to direct link to this page, so you can follow this link to it.

 

[WendiDell]

Thank you for all that info it's good to know. I pan on getting some Texas Holy rock for my Cichlid tank.
I have another question along the same line.
What about Sea Shells used for decorating. Do they need to be sterilized also? And if so how would it differ from the Rock sterilization?

 

[Shadowraven]

Thank you for all that info it's good to know. I pan on getting some Texas Holy rock for my Cichlid tank.
I have another question along the same line.
What about Sea Shells used for decorating. Do they need to be sterilized also? And if so how would it differ from the Rock sterilization?

I wouldn't use sea shells for the same reason I wouldn't use Carbonate rock. They are made of similar materials and will tend to make the water harder. Maybe not too hard, but they will have at least a small effect.

 

[WendiDell]

I wouldn't use sea shells for the same reason I wouldn't use Carbonate rock. They are made of similar materials and will tend to make the water harder. Maybe not too hard, but they will have at least a small effect.

OK, but now I'm confused.
The Cichlid gravel that I bought is mostly made up of crushed shells, and some small whole shells. What's the difference between them?

 

[Shadowraven]

I wouldn't think that there is much difference, if any, but I'm not familiar with that substrate either.

Whether it will affect the fish, that depends on the fish. I believe that many cichlids like harder water. I'm not an expert on cichlids though. Sometimes the shells don't really add too much to the pH. Especially if it is high already. Check to see what your fish like.

If you are going to use shells, be sure to sterilize anything that you put into the tank.

 

[WendiDell]

I wouldn't think that there is much difference, if any, but I'm not familiar with that substrate either.

Whether it will affect the fish, that depends on the fish. Many cichlids like harder water I believe. I'm not an expert on cichlids though. Sometimes the shells don't really add too much to the pH. Especially if it is high already. Check to see what your fish like.

If you are going to use shells, be sure to sterilize anything that you put into the tank.

My Cichlids like a high pH, 7.8-9.0. The Caribbean shell substrate is suppose to keep the pH high. That way I don't have to add any chemicals to keep the pH up, it happens naturally.
I don't want to put in any big shells, because Cichlids like to swim inside things to much. If the shell was big enough they'd swim inside, get stuck and die.
But I wouldn't add anything without sterilizing it first. I just wondered if you could heat up the shells to sterilize them like you do the rocks. I don't like using chemicals if I don't have to.

 

[Shadowraven]

If you did I wouldn't do it on too high a heat, I'd keep it low. Some shells can be very sensitive. It really depends on what kinds of shells they are.

 

[WendiDell]

If you did I wouldn't do it on too high a heat, I'd keep it low. Some shells can be very sensitive. It really depends on what kinds of shells they are.

I don't have them yet. I wasn't sure if they would be safe, or if I could sterilize them without chemicals.
I'll bring it up again when I get them.
Thanks for the help.

 

[kurtyboh]

That is exactly the point of cichlid substrate, to be a constant ph buffer for you. I havn't used it myself but mybuddy just started using it and loves it.

 

[WendiDell]

By using the Cichlid Caribbean shells I save money with every PWC. I never need to add Alkaline Buffer or stable again. The substrate does it for me.
The most important thing with pH is to keep it stable and this does that better than any additive ever could. Without ever adding any chemical, the water in my Cichlid tank pH stays at 8.2.
It's one less thing to worry about.

 

[Shetland James]

I would also STRONGLY suggest you research "fishless cycling" on this site before you buy any fish. Cycling is the single most important part of starting a new aquarium, and without doing it properly, the fish in the tank are virtually always killed or permanently damaged.

Scaremongering.

Books will tell you to leave it for 25 days or whatever but this is quite simply nonsense.

Leave it running for a week or so. ****, in January I traded up my two tanks for one 50 gal tank and filled it with the contents of the other two tanks plus water straight from a hose, heated up. Then I just added the fish.

Since then? I've lost 3 fish to dropsy. That's it. The move actually improved my Bolivian Red Ram's colours immensly.

Take care when caring for fish but don't be scare mongered into buying loads of things you quite simply do not need.

 

[Tim Wheatley]

Scaremongering.

Books will tell you to leave it for 25 days or whatever but this is quite simply nonsense.

Leave it running for a week or so. ****, in January I traded up my two tanks for one 50 gal tank and filled it with the contents of the other two tanks plus water straight from a hose, heated up. Then I just added the fish.

Since then? I've lost 3 fish to dropsy. That's it. The move actually improved my Bolivian Red Ram's colours immensly.

Take care when caring for fish but don't be scare mongered into buying loads of things you quite simply do not need.

You seeded your new tank with your old tanks. This post is about a new tank.

 

[Loach23]

Well I did the research I said I would and loach is definitely right and I was initially wrong... and lucky in the past. ROCKS CAN EXPLODE WHEN HEATED. Couldn't find too many reliable sources about this on aquaria sights so I had to turn to other sources. The Boy Scouts. They use heated rocks all the time to cook with, so they can be heated safely. But you have to be VERY careful about it.

The other sources I found were various scientific articles about rocks.

Below follows instructions about how to prepare rocks for the aquarium excerpted from my website. It was put together after completing the research I said I would for this thread.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Any of the rocks that we find in rivers, lakes, ponds or other natural landscapes can come with other problems besides the one’s we discussed above. These rocks can come loaded with parasites, bacteria, fungus or other organisms that can infest our tanks with unwanted visitors. In addition to these organic pests, rocks can be contaminated by pesticides, herbicides or other toxins that might kill our fish outright. So it is imperative that we prepare them properly. This is one of the reasons that I like boiling any rocks I find. Boiling will help to remove most of the toxins that may be in them. I would still avoid using any rocks that you know to be contaminated with toxins.

WARNING: BOILING OR HEATING ROCKS CAN POTENTIALLY BE VERY DANGEROUS. HEATED ROCKS CAN EXPLODE IF THEY ARE NOT HEATED OR PREPARED PROPERLY. CARE MUST BE EXERCISED IF YOU ATTEMPT TO DO THIS. IF YOU FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS BELOW, YOU SHOULD BE SAFE. BUT, YOU MUST FOLLOW THEM EXACTLY!! IF THE ROCKS AREN'T DRIED OUT BEFORE USE, IT WON'T MATTER HOW SLOWLY THAT YOU HEAT THEM. THE WATER TRAPPED INSIDE WILL STILL TURN TO STEAM AND CAUSE THE ROCK TO EXPLODE!

There are 2 main ways to prepare rocks for the aquarium, the chemical and thermal methods. Both methods require the rock to be prepared in the same way before the sterilization process can begin.

Scrub the rock thoroughly with a brush bought specifically for this purpose. Don’t use a brush that has been used for anything else. You could end up scrubbing chemicals INTO the rock if you do. A potato brush is a good kind of brush to buy for this. Don’t use any kind of soap or chemical to clean the surface with as they can remain in the rock. Use only clean, clear water. Soft water is better to use than hard, but it doesn’t really matter too much what you use.

At this point you need to decide which method you are going to use to sterilize your rock.

The chemical method is faster, but doesn’t penetrate beyond the outer layers of the rock. It comes with some potential risks to your fish since some of the bleach used may remain on the rock. This can potentially harm your fish if the bleach is not completely rinsed away before adding the rock to your tank.

The thermal method takes longer and will do a better job of sterilizing the rock for your tank, as the heat will penetrate all the way through the rock. But it comes with some potential risks for you. If not properly prepared, the rock can explode. This may injure you and will certainly damage anything you are heating it on if it happens.

Now it’s time to sterilize our rocks!

Chemical Sterilization

Take a bucket and fill it with enough cool water to cover the rocks, but not so much it will overflow when you add the rock. Do not use warm water, it will cause the bleach to evaporate and defeat the purpose of soaking it in the first place.

Add 1-2 capfuls of bleach to the water in the bucket. Add a little more if it is much larger than 3 gallons.

Soak the rock for about a day in this solution

Rinse the rock THOROUGHLY. Scrubbing it with water flowing over it is a good idea here. The goal is to clean the rock until you can barely detect the odor of bleach. It’s better if you can’t smell any, but the sensitivity of your nose may have diminished from the odor of all the bleach water.

Soak the rock in a bucket again with at least 3 times the amount of water conditioner you would normally add to similar volume of water for about 3 hours.

Add the rock to your aquarium!

Thermal Sterilization

Once the rock has been cleaned and scrubbed place it somewhere warm and dry for at least a week. Placing a thermal pad under it can speed this process. This will allow the rock to dry out as much as possible. We are trying to remove as much of the water from the rock as possible to reduce the possibility of a steam explosion occurring during the boiling process.

Now that your rock has dried out, set-up a large stock pot with enough water to cover the rock and place it on a heat source. You can do this on the stove or outside with a propane stove. Boiling rocks can sometimes release unpleasant odors and some people prefer to do this outside.

Place the rock into the water BEFORE you begin applying any heat to it. It is VERY important that the rocks heats up slowly along with the water. This allows the heat to remain even throughout the rock.

Boil the rock for at least an hour adding water as needed.

After the hour has passed, let the rock and water cool BEFORE you remove them.

Rinse the rocks off a final time in tap water with a light brushing.

Place the rocks in your aquarium!

Thermal Method Variation

This is a faster method of preparing rocks, but potentially dangerous. It is offered as an option if you don’t feel comfortable with the other two. You will need a good thermometer so you can monitor this process closely. You can heat the rocks and water 180°F for a 2-3 hours. Make sure that the temperature does not rise above 180. That is hot enough to kill most disease organisms. Continue to add water as needed. You need to stay nearby to ensure that the water DOES NOT BOIL!

Wait until the rock and water has completely cooled before removing them.

Rinse the rock off under the tap with a light brushing.

Place the rock into your tank.

This thermal method may not as sure as the other, but is offered as an option to those who are uncomfortable with the idea of boiling or using chemicals. The author has yet to try this himself, but has heard of it being done. I can offer no guarantees of its safety or viability, but the theory is sound and should work.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was asked to direct link to this page, so you can follow this link to it.

Thanks shadow.