I got bad advice at the LFS and am now in the process of doing a fish in cycling. However my water is very cloudy. Other than vigilant pwcs will anything clear this water? I've tried adding a water clarifier. Thanks in advanve!
cloudy water during fish in cycle
- Thread starter arachniac
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bruinsbro1997
Aquarium Advice Addict
arachniac said:
No, that's your bacterial bloom, which will go away on it's own, but it's a good thing, shows your tank is starting to cycle!
eco23
Aquarium Advice Addict
It's normal, and there's no need or use for a water clarifier. What you're seeing is actually the heterotrophic bacteria establishing (not the good type we're trying to grow). It's important to make sure you've got lots of surface agitation (air stone, filter splashing down into water, etc...) because the bloom of bacteria has the potential to deplete the dissolved oxygen in the tank.
Here's an interesting read on it-
http://www.oscarfish.com/article-home/water/72-heterotrophic-bacteria.html
And of course your cycling guide -
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...g-but-I-already-have-fish-What-now/Page2.html
Here's an interesting read on it-
http://www.oscarfish.com/article-home/water/72-heterotrophic-bacteria.html
And of course your cycling guide
-http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...g-but-I-already-have-fish-What-now/Page2.html
eco23
Aquarium Advice Addict
As a side note...is the tank stock listing in your profile accurate? The 29 gallon tank with Bala Sharks, Pictus Catfish, Pleco, etc...? I won't beat you up about it, and I know you got some bad advice...but you're gonna need to either return most of the fish in your tank or buy a 125+ gallon tank soon.
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jimsgrl
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
I'm a newbie with basic knowledge, and I'm having similar problems. I know my 7 week old tank is in a major bacterial bloom...but is there any idea how long it could take? It's been well over a week, possibly even over two, and my water levels are all fine. Water is just very cloudy.
LyndaB
Aquarium Advice Addict
There's no one set time frame for the bloom. Each tank is handled differently by its owner, so you won't be able to say "it takes 10 days" or whatever.
jimsgrl
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
That makes sense. Is there anything I can do besides water changes to clear it up sooner (or sould I just let it run it's course)? It doesn't seem to be bothering the fish, even my week old fry are doing well...it's more of an appearance thing.
LyndaB
Aquarium Advice Addict
You have to understand that the bacterial bloom is a vital component of cycling your tank. You WANT it in your tank.
eco23
Aquarium Advice Addict
I linked this before, but I think it's important that the information gets out since this is a common misconception. Here's an excerpt from Oscarfish.com. It gives some information on the bacterial blooms cause, and ways to manage it.
---------------------------
"Cloudy Water
Whenever you hear reference to a “bacteria bloom” resulting in cloudy water, it is the heterotrophic bacteria that are causing this bloom, not the nitrifying bacteria. Autotrophic nitrifying bacteria reproduce too slowly to cause cloudy water. Therefore, cloudy water from a bacterial bloom is not necessarily an indication of a cycling tank, a common reference that could only be correct if it is an indication that all bacteria in the tank has been wiped out (a result of medications, chlorination, etc…) or if it is a new tank void of heterotrophic bacteria. Regardless, in most cases associated with an established tank, cloudy water is an indication of excess organics, not a tank cycle.
While a tank cycle is not the cause of cloudy water, cloudy water could, however, result in tank mini-cycle. A bacterial bloom resulting in cloudy water is an indication of excess dissolved organics existing in the water column. A subsequent explosion of heterotrophic bacteria will occur to consume these organics, eventually converting them into ammonia. If the existing colonies of nitrifying bacteria are insufficient to deal with the sudden (but temporary) increase in ammonia, spikes will occur. In addition, since heterotrophic bacteria compete with autotrophic bacteria for oxygen and surface area, such an explosion of heterotrophic bacteria may reduce oxygen levels available to the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria, potentially making them less efficient and less able to compete. With the excess food source available to the heterotrophs, along with the reduction in oxygen, combined with the ability of heterotrophs to out-populate the autotrophs by a factor of 4,722,366,482,869,645,213,696 to 11 , the heterotrophs can quickly take over the available surface area. The potential end result, the heterotrophs over run the autotrophs, resulting in subsequent spikes in ammonia and/or nitrite, until the excess organics are consumed (or removed), at which point the autotrophs can start to regain ground.
As has been mentioned several times, you prevent this potential issue by providing an environment conducive to autotrophic nitrifying bacteria. With sufficient (excess) surface area, sufficient (excess) flow rates, sufficient (excess) oxygen levels, and an optimal temperature, an explosion of heterotrophic bacteria can occur without impacting the autotrophic bacteria. The heterotrophic bacteria population will expand, but with sufficient surface area and oxygen, they will not overrun the autotrophs and the colonies of nitrifying bacteria will be able to expand (provided an optimal temperature is maintained) to deal with the additional ammonia.
Should you face a bacterial bloom, one of the first actions that should be taken is to increase aeration by whatever means necessary. This should be done as much to protect your fish as it should be done to protect the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria. In sufficient quantities, heterotrophic bacteria can quickly consume all of the available oxygen, leaving none for the fish or the autotrophs. A bacterial bloom sufficient to cause cloudy water suggests that your tank is at risk of becoming depleted in oxygen."
---------------------------
"Cloudy Water
Whenever you hear reference to a “bacteria bloom” resulting in cloudy water, it is the heterotrophic bacteria that are causing this bloom, not the nitrifying bacteria. Autotrophic nitrifying bacteria reproduce too slowly to cause cloudy water. Therefore, cloudy water from a bacterial bloom is not necessarily an indication of a cycling tank, a common reference that could only be correct if it is an indication that all bacteria in the tank has been wiped out (a result of medications, chlorination, etc…) or if it is a new tank void of heterotrophic bacteria. Regardless, in most cases associated with an established tank, cloudy water is an indication of excess organics, not a tank cycle.
While a tank cycle is not the cause of cloudy water, cloudy water could, however, result in tank mini-cycle. A bacterial bloom resulting in cloudy water is an indication of excess dissolved organics existing in the water column. A subsequent explosion of heterotrophic bacteria will occur to consume these organics, eventually converting them into ammonia. If the existing colonies of nitrifying bacteria are insufficient to deal with the sudden (but temporary) increase in ammonia, spikes will occur. In addition, since heterotrophic bacteria compete with autotrophic bacteria for oxygen and surface area, such an explosion of heterotrophic bacteria may reduce oxygen levels available to the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria, potentially making them less efficient and less able to compete. With the excess food source available to the heterotrophs, along with the reduction in oxygen, combined with the ability of heterotrophs to out-populate the autotrophs by a factor of 4,722,366,482,869,645,213,696 to 11 , the heterotrophs can quickly take over the available surface area. The potential end result, the heterotrophs over run the autotrophs, resulting in subsequent spikes in ammonia and/or nitrite, until the excess organics are consumed (or removed), at which point the autotrophs can start to regain ground.
As has been mentioned several times, you prevent this potential issue by providing an environment conducive to autotrophic nitrifying bacteria. With sufficient (excess) surface area, sufficient (excess) flow rates, sufficient (excess) oxygen levels, and an optimal temperature, an explosion of heterotrophic bacteria can occur without impacting the autotrophic bacteria. The heterotrophic bacteria population will expand, but with sufficient surface area and oxygen, they will not overrun the autotrophs and the colonies of nitrifying bacteria will be able to expand (provided an optimal temperature is maintained) to deal with the additional ammonia.
Should you face a bacterial bloom, one of the first actions that should be taken is to increase aeration by whatever means necessary. This should be done as much to protect your fish as it should be done to protect the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria. In sufficient quantities, heterotrophic bacteria can quickly consume all of the available oxygen, leaving none for the fish or the autotrophs. A bacterial bloom sufficient to cause cloudy water suggests that your tank is at risk of becoming depleted in oxygen."
LyndaB
Aquarium Advice Addict
I never claimed to be a rocket scientist, and I'm certainly not a biologist, but it sure would be nice if articles like that were written so that we could understand them.
jimsgrl
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
I never claimed to be a rocket scientist, and I'm certainly not a biologist, but it sure would be nice if articles like that were written so that we could understand them.
Thank GOD...I thought it was just me! lol
eco23
Aquarium Advice Addict
If you guys don't like that one...you'd HATE to see my other bookmarks and PDF files, lol.
Simply put...you're not seeing the good bacteria. You're actually seeing the type that PRODUCES ammonia, not removes it.
The bacteria that makes the tank cloudy competes with the good bacteria and actually can prevent your cycle from starting because it is stealing all the oxygen, surface area of your tank and food from the beneficial bacteria you want.
It's important to have lots of surface agitation (air stone, bubble wand, lower water level so the filter splashes) because the cloudy water you see can suffocate the fish and the good bacteria because it's using all the oxygen in the tank.
Cloudy water = bad. It does not mean your tank is starting to cycle...it actually delays it from starting.
(To other members reading this...I'm really generalizing here for understanding. Don't beat me up cause I'm giving blanket statements, lol)
Simply put...you're not seeing the good bacteria. You're actually seeing the type that PRODUCES ammonia, not removes it.
The bacteria that makes the tank cloudy competes with the good bacteria and actually can prevent your cycle from starting because it is stealing all the oxygen, surface area of your tank and food from the beneficial bacteria you want.
It's important to have lots of surface agitation (air stone, bubble wand, lower water level so the filter splashes) because the cloudy water you see can suffocate the fish and the good bacteria because it's using all the oxygen in the tank.
Cloudy water = bad. It does not mean your tank is starting to cycle...it actually delays it from starting.
(To other members reading this...I'm really generalizing here for understanding. Don't beat me up cause I'm giving blanket statements, lol)
LyndaB
Aquarium Advice Addict
eco, that was SOOOOOOO much better......
eco23
Aquarium Advice Addict
LyndaB said:eco, that was SOOOOOOO much better......
It's actually a really interesting article once you get the hang of it. It also explains why most bottled bacteria doesn't work.
Do this...every time they say heterotrophic bacteria, just imagine they're saying "wrong bacteria". And when they mention nitrifying or autotrophic bacteria, that means "good bacteria". It's pretty easy to follow if you know how they refer to the two types of bacteria in a tank (again, I'm generalizing there).
Most bottled bacteria contains heterotrophs ("wrong bacteria"
). So if you can follow it, it really explains a lot about these bio-filter crashes and other problems caused by bottled bacteria.
LyndaB
Aquarium Advice Addict
This sounds either like a disease or maybe where guys get together in a buddy's man cave and pat themselves on the back...... right before they give themselves trophies for being playahs.....
jimsgrl
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Ok, I don't want to panic...but I just went to go test my water and do a water change (bc it's Friday, and it's due) and my ammonia is pretty high (like almost 4.0) and it looks like I lost 3 fry. 
I did my 1/4 - 1/3 water change (and the water already looks a bit clearer)...but should I do anything else? Like I said, I don't want to panic, but this is the longest I've been doing really well with this **** tank, and I want to keep it up, lol.
I did my 1/4 - 1/3 water change (and the water already looks a bit clearer)...but should I do anything else? Like I said, I don't want to panic, but this is the longest I've been doing really well with this **** tank, and I want to keep it up, lol.
eco23
Aquarium Advice Addict
jimsgrl said:Ok, I don't want to panic...but I just went to go test my water and do a water change (bc it's Friday, and it's due) and my ammonia is pretty high (like almost 4.0) and it looks like I lost 3 fry.
I did my 1/4 - 1/3 water change (and the water already looks a bit clearer)...but should I do anything else? Like I said, I don't want to panic, but this is the longest I've been doing really well with this **** tank, and I want to keep it up, lol.
Change however much water is needed to reduce ammonia and no2 down to .25 or below. As long as you are dechlorinating and temperature matching the water, there is no such thing as too many water changes. 4.0 is a crisis situation. I would do a 75% change, let the water circulate for 20 minutes and do another 75% pwc. You're going to need to test every day and do pwc's as necessary to keep the toxins as low as possible.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...g-but-I-already-have-fish-What-now/Page2.html
jimsgrl
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
I've done 2 75% water changes and re tested the water each time. The first dropped the levels a bit, but the second completely cleared the water and brought the ammonia down to 0. My pH went up a tad (looking around 7.1/7.2ish at the moment), but that should be healthy for my mollies, right?
Thank you so much for the help. I did end up loosing 3 fry, so I'm down to 12...but everyone looks very active and happy now.
Thank you so much for the help. I did end up loosing 3 fry, so I'm down to 12...but everyone looks very active and happy now.
librarygirl
Look It Up
I've done 2 75% water changes and re tested the water each time. The first dropped the levels a bit, but the second completely cleared the water and brought the ammonia down to 0. My pH went up a tad (looking around 7.1/7.2ish at the moment), but that should be healthy for my mollies, right?
Thank you so much for the help. I did end up loosing 3 fry, so I'm down to 12...but everyone looks very active and happy now.
Good job. Your PH is fine, that's a negligible level of fluctuation. The fish will adapt to whatever your PH is and as long as it stays stable they'll be fine (small fluctuations like that are fine, you just don't want large swings). You'll need to test the water 1-2x daily and do water changes as needed to keep those levels low b/c they're going to start rising again. Have you seen nitrite yet? How long have you been cycling? What fish do you have in the tank and what size is the tank?
jimsgrl
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
No nitrate or nitrite, pH is fine and ammonia has been relatively low all wknd...but my fry keep dying off! I have no idea what else to do. I just did another 50% water change, but I've already lost like a half dozen just this morning. I have one or two that are trying to hang on (doesn't look good) and about 6 or 7 that look ok. My poor little babies....what else can I do?
I have one or two that are trying to hang on (doesn't look good) and about 6 or 7 that look ok. My poor little babies....what else can I do?Similar threads
