kh need to be lowered; how to do it????

[dogsby8]

55 gal with under gravel filter & whisper power filter 3; kh value 300+, ph at 8.4. have tried several ph balancers and/or reducers with no luck!!! need info on other methods ex. peat filtering, co2 etc. fish in tank 9 angels,4 clown loaches, 3 corydories, 6 tetras: 3 neon &3 red,1 upside down catfish and 1 male guppy. all decorations bought at pet store and are plastic.

[dogsby8]

[shawmutt]

Use R/O water or distilled water in your water changes. 55 gallon is borderline as far as buying water and carrying it home, if you have the funds you may want to invest in a R/O filter. I have a 30 gallon tank, and I used to buy 6-8 gallons of distilled water a week. For today's water change, I went to walmart and bought their R/O water for 33 cents a gallon. I bought two 5 gallon jugs from there too, a bit pricey but the cost will work out in the long run. I bought some R/O Right from the petstore and used that to adjust my water to the perfect parameters. It worked out rather well.

[madasafish]

How on god's green earth are those Neon Tetras surviving in a tank with a pH of 8.4??????? They need a pH from about 5.8-6.5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My sincerest sympathies extended to you for the strange situation...

Have you tried the best pH neutralizer--Seachem's? It should not only bring down your pH (necessary for all the fish you mentioned!), but also precipitate metals from your tank water. Get it if you haven't tried it yet. It comes in a cylindrical plastic container, and has pictures of angelfish on the front. The good thing about Seachem's powder is that you can determine your own involvement, and add as much or as little powder as you want. (The recommended is a teaspoon per 10-20 gallons.)

A lot of ppl put peat in their canister filters to bring down the pH, and that might be a good idea if you got a canister. Does this also work for HOB filters??? Anyone know?

Is there any way you have the wrong test kit for pH, though? 8.4 sounds very high for tap water. What type of gravel do you have? It sounds like you have coral or limestone gravel, but that can't be right... Is it possible that you have a marine sand, gravel or crushed coral substrate?

I suppose you might just have VERY alkaline tap water... Do you know the geology of your area? Are you in a limestone-rich region?

Oh, DUH! Silly me. Get some aquarium driftwood fast! Petco or any other large chains should have it, as well as any really good LFSs, and it will immediately bring your pH way down. Most places stock "Malaysian Driftwood," which is safe for tanks. You may have to spring >$30 for a piece to put in your 55, but it should help you, and it will certainly pay for itself by improving water conditions for your fish...

[silvi-p]

@all:
what is KH level 300+??????? my goodness!! water hardness of this level??
then you can try just about anything, neither driftwood nor peat will help, only R/O water.
how much hardness would that be in *german* degrees, does anyone know??

high hardness means that the acids from driftwood or peat are consumed by the salts that cause the hardness. so instead of lowering your ph, you'll lower your kh first, and only after this one's far enough down, ph is gonna sink.

*quite out of it cause of this 300 hardness* 8O
-s.

[justDIY]

lower KH, or carbonate hardness, by boiling, adding CO2 gas or using RO water.

lower GH, or general hardness with driftwood, peat, vinegar or RO water.

300+ would be PPM, divide by 17.9 for german degrees (the most widely used unit).

That really is high for a KH value, but about par for most places GH.

My tap water is 16-20 GH and 8-10 KH, with driftwood and co2, my gh is about 12, kh about 4.

[yhbae]

Originally Posted by justDIY

lower KH, or carbonate hardness, by boiling, adding CO2 gas or using RO water.

lower GH, or general hardness with driftwood, peat, vinegar or RO water.

300+ would be PPM, divide by 17.9 for german degrees (the most widely used unit).

That really is high for a KH value, but about par for most places GH.

My tap water is 16-20 GH and 8-10 KH, with driftwood and co2, my gh is about 12, kh about 4.

Aha! I believe this is the info I've been looking for a while...
So driftwood/peat only affects GH and not KH? And I assume only low-KH causes pH swing?

So for someone with super low KH (2 degree or less) and pretty low GH (4-5 degree), combination of baking soda and driftwood will keep pH near neutral and at the same time, result in higher KH? (I don't care much about GH level).

Appreciate if anyone can confirm this... (Sorry about changing topic)...

[Terry]

silvia
A KH of 200 - 300 is 12-14 dh
A KH of 300 - 450 is 18-25 dh
Over 450 would be 25dh +

[justDIY]

Aha! I believe this is the info I've been looking for a while...
So driftwood/peat only affects GH and not KH? And I assume only low-KH causes pH swing?

So for someone with super low KH (2 degree or less) and pretty low GH (4-5 degree), combination of baking soda and driftwood will keep pH near neutral and at the same time, result in higher KH? (I don't care much about GH level).

Check out http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry

They have some great articles on adjusting your gh, kh and ph - plus pros and cons of various adjusters (like baking soda) and buffers (like calcium carbonate).

[yhbae]

justDIY, thanks for the link - I'll read it right away!

[silvi-p]

@terry, thanks. I have to find the calculations and write them down some time. it's so confusing!

@justDIY:
anything that affects KH also affects GH. KH is a part of the GH measurement. it's in fact the first variable to react to peat and driftwood. however, at a KH as yhbae mentions (300), all of those measures probably amount to nothing (tried myself, similar kh at home), consequently, ph will not change either. at a kh of 300 or 12-14°, only R/O water helps.

@yhbae:
the setup you propose is quite unusual for my understanding. at a very low gh and kh, it will probably be hard to maintain a ph around neutral (and why would you want to do that?), at least I've never heard or read of such a constellation in nature. very soft waters (like middle american rivers) have low ph as well, as far as I know. I think that baking soda brings up ph, what happens to kh is not known to me.

if you just want to increase your kh, why don't you add calcium-containing rocks or shells, or use kh+ products? ph should follow the increase if I think right...

hope we can help you some more...
silvia