Need help with sick oranda

[SeattleSun]

Need urgent advice on treatment of large oranda who was healthy and swimming on day 1 and on day 2 is lying on bottom of 30 gal. hex, and eyes are becoming clouded with white haze, as well as body. He had been very healthy in an 18 gal. tank, and then I moved him to larger tank and he suddenly became ill. Before moving him, I removed the other 2 orandas and did a 99.9% water change, cleaned filter and vacuumed gravel. One of the other orandas also appears to be developing this white slime? problem and edges of tail fins appear affected.
Am treating the entire tank with Melafix, but in 12 hours haven't seen any improvement.
Would it be better to use "Jungle Fungus Eliminator?" This product is supposed to clear serious fungus and bacteria fast.

 

[jsoong]

Stop dumping meds indiscriminately into your tank .... they will cause more problems than help.

First, we need to find out what happened. Basic info needed:
1. How long have you set up this 30 gal?
2. Are the other 2 orandas still in the 18 & they are fine?
3. Did you cycle the tank?
4. How long did you have the 18 set up for?
5. How big are the fishes? (length, not counting tails.)

My thoughts are:
1. This may well be "old tank syndrome:
The 18 is crowded with 3 golds & water parameters had deteriorated (ie high nitrates & doc's). However, changes had been gradual & fish was able to adapt. The 100% water change & move to new tank had drastically altered the water chemistry. Even though the fish is now in clean water, it is in shock because of the different water parameter. Generally, you need to do careful acclimatization if you are to move fish to different water, else you shock the fish & get into trouble.
2. This may also be "new tank syndrome"
Your 20 is not cycled, so there is no bacteria to handle the fish waste. Thus ammonia (& later nitrites) accumulates. Cloudy body indicates a thickened slime coat & this usu. is due to surface irritation (ammonia, other irritants in water, external parasites). Ammonia burns the gills as well, so the fish can't get enough oxygen, hence the lethargy. It also drasticaly reduces the fish's immunity so all sorts of infections crops up.

What I suggest at the moment:
1. Check your water parameters: You need to do an ammonia test at the minimum. Also nice to have, nitrite, nitrates & pH. Do it in both tanks if both are running.
2. In the absence of tests, do a 40-50% water change. Make sure the water is the same as the tank, temp matched & dechlorinated. With a big water change, even if all parameters matched, it would be prudent to put the water in slowly - say over 15 minutes.
3. You might consider treating with a broad spectrum anti-bacterial & anti-parasite agent - AFTER you get the water parameters controlled. Unfortunately, goldies' bugs are now pretty much resistent to all stuff you add to the water. You need to treat with antibacterial/anti-fungal containing food. <Current recommended ones are: Kanamycin for bacteria, Praziquentil for parasite> If fish is not eating, you can try Kanamycin in the water - this is the only anti-biotics that is well absorbed.
4. You might consider the use of salt.

Personally, I would hold off on 3 & 4 at the moment. Do the pwc now, then post your water parameters & other details & we might have better recommendations for you.

BTW - if you are running out to the lfs for stuff, (like then test kit! - get a liquid one, the stripes are not accurate), you might want to stock up on the anti-bact food. Since it is Christmas, you might be unable to get anything tomorrow.

 

[SeattleSun]

Sick orandas

All of my orandas in two tanks (30 G. and 28 G.) have died except one. These tanks were set up 18 mos. ago and I had no problems until recently. Still don't know what caused the problem, but I had not been testing water regularly. When I did, the amonia and pH were way off. One morning my last oranda in the 28 G. tank was floating on the top on his side, barely breathing. He was covered with slime. I filled a large bucket with water the same temp as the tank, put him in it, and did a 95% pwc and thorough gravel cleaning. I added Melafix, and put him back in the tank. I expected him to die, but within a few hours he was swimming and the slime had disappeared! I've been watching the pH, and keeping it at 7.0 and the amonia is still a little high (between .25 and .50) but he is actively swimming and eating! The amonia is probably a little high because I removed the charcoal filter while treating with Melafix, since he ended up with a little fin rot on his tail. It has been over two weeks, so it looks like I will not lose him. The tank has an Aqua Clear 50 3-stage power filter, a temperature maintained at 78 degrees F. and an air pump.

Right now the 30 G. hex is empty.

 

[jsoong]

Still don't know what caused the problem, but I had not been testing water regularly. When I did, the amonia and pH were way off. ....

I would say the ammonia being "way off" is the main problem. Oranda's are very sensitive to water conditions & you need to really keep up with water changes, esp. in small setups.

I would suspect that your biofiter had died off for some reason, and you ended up with a mini-cycle. Or your tank had such waste buildup from lack of gravel vac that the decay exceeded the tank's bioload. Whatever the cause, your goal now is to maintain the water parameters while the tank finishes (re-)cycling. Keep a close watch on the ammonia & nitrite levels & do enough water changes to keep all levels low. When you see ZERO ammonia, ZERO nitrites, and some nitrates, then you can relax & get back to your routine pwc's.

pH is generally not a problem <unless you had a pH crash>. Generally, you should not have to work to "keep" the pH at 7.0. It is far better to maintain a stable pH that is identical to your tap water's, so you don't have to doctor the water in doing large emergency water changes. Unless your tap's pH is way off, I would suggest maintaining the tank at that pH instead of 7.0. <BTW - ideal pH for goldfish is not 7.0 .... even though that is neutral ph & goldfish can live in it .... Goldfish would much rather be in moderately hard water of 7.5 ish. A benefit of water at 7.5 is that it would be well buffered & the pH would remain stable unless severely neglected.> If you wish, you can gradually raise your tank pH to match your tap's via water changes (I am assuming that your tap is in the mid 7's). But do not change the pH more than 0.1 unit a day to avoid stressing the fish.