Why aren't people using this stuff to cycle?

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Okay, what we need is someone here to start two new tanks at the same time, exact same conditions, one using Cycle and one not, and see what happens. Who's up for it and has the extra tanks lying around?
 
I think that's a good idea as well fearlessfisch. I would wait until patagonia has a positive or negative result though.

In order to really get real results, a blind double negative test would to be performed. IMO.
 
Excellent idea. Now if I can only convience my wife to let me purchase two identical set ups which is going to be a hard sell with the 20 long, 29, and a ten sitting in the garage. It shouldn't matter the container so I think I might use two, one gallon jugs and see what happens.
 
Jchillin said:
In layman's terms, they are claiming that the bottle contains...bacteria. Now, how is this bacteria kept alive in a dormant bottle laying on store shelves for months on end? The bottle I'm using for reference has an expiration date of October 2007.
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I don't know anything about Cycle, but here is Seachem's explanation:

http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Stability_faq.html

I used Stability on my new 29G, with the same "it can't hurt" mentality. I can't say if it helped or not though, since I've had 0 0 0 nitrogen readings all the way through (3 weeks now). Seems the plants won't let anything build up in there :)
 
Thanks for submitting that link SteveM.

Okay, so we know that both are claiming to provide nitrosomas and nitrobacter bacteria. This is a great thing.

The problem is...this bacteria is just as dormant as the natural bacteria already found in the tank to begin with.

A quick re-cap of the nitrogen cycle (keep in mind that both the somas and bacter are already present in a dormant state):

1. Waste products produce NH3. At a certain level (this level has been debated also...for the sake of argument...let's say 2ppm) the bacteria are "awakened" and consume the NH3, leaving another waste product NO2.
2. NO2 (again, the level is debatable but let's say 2ppm) awakens a different strain of bacteria and the NO2 is consumed, leaving behind NO3.

So, no matter how much bacteria is in your tank...it is subject to enormous pressure to once established to stay that way. Levels of NH3 that are above 5ppm or below .25ppm are said to shock the bacteria back into the dormant state (also known and "stalled cycle").

Oh, and this is quoted from "The skeptical Aquarist":

"It is important to know what bacteria are really responsible for nitrification because, in order to mimic nature, we have to understand what we are trying to copy," Hovanec wrote. "There are many brands of bacterial mixtures for jump starting or accelerating the break-in period of newly set-up aquariums on the market. On what basis were they formulated? From research that has been done thus far we know that just putting some N. europæa and Nitrobacter winogradskyi in a bottle does not work. Of course, using this type of mixture is appealing to a lot of people because most of us don't like to wait. However, there is a lot of evidence accumulating from various research efforts that shows that the nitrifying bacteria are not dominated by just two species of bacteria-- one for ammonia oxidation and the other for nitrite oxidation. Further, the species that we had previously thought to be important may not be the critical ones."
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You can see the entire article here:

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/nutrient/nitcyc.shtml
 
ok...its done! my friend planted "Cycle" on every single media she had available...even some kind of weird broth that is supposed to enhance the growth of most types of bacterias...they are in the incubator right now and tomorrow she will "read" the results....so ill post tomorrow and well see what this stuff is all about.... :roll:
 
I think this thread got kind of off topic. The original question was about Seachem Stability, not Cycle. It would be interesting to see what the results show regarding Cycle, but I'd be curious to see how the Seachem Stability compares, AND Bio-Spira.
 
Tony Starks said:
GET A PRODUCT LIKE SEA-CHEM STABILITY, CYCLE, OR SEVERAL OTHERS!!!
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Actually the original post made a blanket claim about products they had never tried, but it would be nice to use our free biochem lab to do a full comparison :)
 
Right, but I know that Tony has been using the Seachem Stability and recommending it to others, that's why I thought that it would be pretty interesting to see those results.

From experience, I know that Cycle didn't help one bit in my cycling process. The only thing I've heard of working is Bio-Spira.
 
Fishyfanatic said:
I think this thread got kind of off topic. The original question was about Seachem Stability, not Cycle. It would be interesting to see what the results show regarding Cycle, but I'd be curious to see how the Seachem Stability compares, AND Bio-Spira.
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Nice touch Fishyfanatic. The missing bacteria in my last thread was identified by researchers as nitrospira (hence the bio-spira brand). Since Bio-Spira uses this nitrifying bacteria in their product and there are more positive results with this than any of the others, I would say that Bio-Spira is head and arms above the rest.
 
im very interested to see how the tests turns out. seeing as though i just shelled out 10 bucks for a bottle of cycle earlier today hehe
 
I used stress zyme a while back. It seemed like I quickly got an ammonia spike and moved to having nitrites in under 10 days. Still took a solid 4 weeks to fully cycle the tank though.
 
ok...i have some news...we took all the petri plates from the incubator today and guess what??? THEY WERE ALL FULL OF BACTERIA... 8O ...YES...and my friend is so nice that she even took the trouble of making a slide an we looked at it under the microscope and there they were...according to her they are aerobic spore bearing bacilli...and she thinks that the fact that they form spores is what allows them to survive in the bottle...just to simplify...a spore is something that forms when the conditions are not favorable...but...given the proper ones they will grow and reproduce...pretty much like the seeds from plants...she also thinks that the fact that this stuff works for some people and for some others it doesnt might be because we all use different water sources...hence different water chemistry...so...i guess we are not suing anybody since what they claim its in the bottle its true...they do have live bacteria after all.... :?
 
Thanks so much for assisting everyone in this endeavour Patagonia. I guess that your results prove one thing...that the bacteria is dormant and still requires that the user "activate" it in order for them to survive, multiply and do their job. Keeping all water parameters in check and so forth. I had made that observation from the beginning.

Bio-Spira on the other hand, claims to have "live" bacteria. No, we don't need a separate test for that. :D
 
hahaha...thanks for the kudos...and im thinking about it too...its been 10 days since i started my fishless cycle so...it wont hurt to add some...or will it :roll: ? haha...
 
It can't hurt. I found that numbers increased in the vials of water i spiked with cycle when I looked at them the other day at work. Very subjective just took a small aliquot and placed it on a slide.
 
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