Yet another cycling question

[kg123]

Hi -

I purchased a 6 gallon tank with aquascaping in mind and I'm on day 7 of the cycle. Keep in mind I don't have access to any media from another tank so this is a fresh start.

Here's what I have so far:

Fluval 6 gallon with light modification
Water Plant activated soil
Using RO Water purchsed from the fish store.
Driftwood (Pre-Boiled)
Rocks
Filter
Plants - (2 in total) - split into various parts of the tank.
Nutrafin - Cycle (dumped in a full bottle over 3 days per advise from the fish shop) I used this product before reading about raw ammonia. Nutrafin cycle is the only chemical additive thus far.
Heater

Have yet to install:
CO2

Levels
My levels are confusing and I can't seem to find anything similar on the vast internet.

PH: 7.8
Ammonia: 4.0ppm (doesn't budge)
Nitrate: 5.0ppm (Has risen)
Nitrite: 20(ish) - difficult to tell on the color swap. (Has risen slightly)
Water Temp: Has been around 71, however, I just installed my heater today set at 82.

Additional Info

It seems for the past 4-5 days, at least, the ammonia has stayed the same. One last bit of info is I had a beta in the tank for about 3 days but took it out, the tank is now fish-less.

I have not performed a water change yet - most articles advise against a water change in the beginning of a cycle at least until the Nitrites go through the roof.

Do these numbers look right? Am I doing anything wrong? Is it just a matter of patience and time? Should I add more plants? Lastly, should I be adding aquarium salt?

 

[Old Scales]

Hello KG,
I'll try to answer a few of the key points of your questions.
Your pH is fine. A cycle will slow down at 6.4 and stop at 6.0. So 7.8 is just fine.
Ammonia at 4.0 is where most people dose for a fish less cycle. With the goal being going to zero in 24 to 30 hours.
Nitrates at 5.0 indicates he had some bacterial action.
Nitrites at 20 ppm is way too high. I would be more comfortable with it being at 10 ppm for the bacteria to work on. Go ahead and do a 50% water change because of this and redose ammonia back to 4 ppm.
Your temperature at 71 is pretty low for good bacterial growth. Now that you have a heater that had set it up to 82 you should see vastly improved bacterial action. Watch the ammonia and see if the increased temperature starts to cause it to go down.
I am assuming that you are dosing pure ammonia with no additives. You want to see your ammonia go from 4 ppm to zero in 24 to 30 hours with the nitrites also reading zero and nitrates rising accordingly.
Salt has no purpose in cycling a tank. Indeed it would hurt rather than help.
There are many in here who have done silent cycles, and hopefully they will chime in also soon with even better advice. Good luck, OS.

 

[kg123]

OS -

Thanks for the quick response - it's nice to get some sort of feedback when feeling lost.

To clarify two things.

1. I haven't purchased or used raw ammonia - only Nutrafin -Cycle.
2. Nitrates, for me, are hard to read using the API water kit. The difference between 10-20 is next to nothing. But - after just testing the water for the 2nd time today it's looking closer to 40ppm, and orangy red color. I might double check the other levels later but my guess is they are pretty close or exactly the same as my original post.

Once again thanks! Cool forum.

 

[threnjen]

Hi kg123!

In your first post did you mix up NitrItes and NitrAtes? so your nitrItes are 5.0 and NitrAtes are 20?

 

[kg123]

Final numbers: (double checking the correct name per value haha!)

PH 6.6/6.8
Ammonia 4.0 ppm
Nitrite 2.0 ppm
Nitrate 40 ppm

 

[Old Scales]

Nitrates going to is a good sign. It means you're getting the second type of bacteria necessary for complete nitrification. Which is nitrites to nitrates. And yes the color chart for nitrates sucks. Did your nitrites go down any? What about the ammonia? Has it gone down? During your cycle you need to test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrates every 24 hours also pH. Raw ammonia without any cleaning agents is hard to find. I have heard of people finding it at Ace Hardware. I read where some people used raw shrimp in the water to decompose and make the ammonia. Never tried it because I like eating shrimp too well.
Since you don't have any fish in the tank you don't have to be as paranoid about water changes. Keep us posted on your progress ..OS

 

[Old Scales]

Okay, you are posting your test results as I was typing a reply. Your test results look pretty good. Once you get your temperature up to 82 watch and see if the ammonia will start to go down and nitrites continue to go up or at least they the same. Keep us posted. OS.

 

[kg123]

Thanks again for all your comments - I'll keep monitoring and hopefully see a drop in ammonia shortly. /relief

You guys rule.

 

[Old Scales]

You are very welcome!

 

[librarygirl]

Are you using 100% pure RO water? if so it has zero nutrients, so you'll have to replenish those manually with something like Seachem REplenish or Kent's R/O Rite. The bacteria will need nutrients to thrive; so will the fish once you get them. If you're cutting the tap water with RO water then you should be fine, but if you're using 100% RO you need to replenish it. That could be part of the issue. Is there a reason you're using RO and not tap?

 

[kg123]

Are you using 100% pure RO water? if so it has zero nutrients, so you'll have to replenish those manually with something like Seachem REplenish or Kent's R/O Rite. The bacteria will need nutrients to thrive; so will the fish once you get them. If you're cutting the tap water with RO water then you should be fine, but if you're using 100% RO you need to replenish it. That could be part of the issue. Is there a reason you're using RO and not tap?

Great question. I used RO because I thought it was cleaner and safer than using tap water. Also, the fish store told me I could put fish in right away using the RO water, which I know now is clearly false. (My poor betta )

After one night of using the heater I didn't see much change in levels other than a drop in PH - now 6.4.

Here is a list of chemicals I currently own:

Nutrafin Cycle - added about 8fl oz in total over 5 days.
Nutrafin Aqua + (sample size) - haven't used it
API CO2 booster - added just a little bit.
Flourish Excel (which I believe is similar to the API CO2 booster) - added a tiny ammount, <5ml.
Ace Hardware 10% ammonia - but haven't used it since my tank will not budge from 4ppm.

Are any of the above listed similar to Seachem Replenish or Kent's R/O Rite keeping in mind I have live plants in the tank?

 

[Old Scales]

No. None of the stuff you listed above will do anything to add minerals back into the RO water. Reverse osmosis and distilled water have no minerals in it to buffer against extreme pH swings.
Why are you having to use RO water? OS.

 

[kg123]

I don't need to use RO, just thought it was safer than my tap water. Should I do a pwc with tap water or buy the missing minerals per the previous suggestion?

 

[Old Scales]

First I want to say is that if you're really serious about knowing what your water is get API master test kit if you don't already have one. Then take a sample of your tap water and set it out for about 6 to 12 hours, then test the pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Write these values down somewhere and keep this as your baseline that you know you're starting with. Most city water supplies are perfectly okay for aquariums. Some people have extremely high pH or high KH water and have to deal with it with RO or distilled water. If your pH is below 7.5 and KH is below 15° hardness then you can keep 90% of the fish on the market. If your tap water is within this range, use a good dechlorinator and you'll be good to go making life a lot simpler. Let us know what your tap water tests out at. OS.

 

[threnjen]

Hi! Welcome to the forum!

I have some questions/comments about stuff so far:

a) I agree with everyone else, you definitely don't need RO water, in fact ALL RO water is really bad. If your source tap water has over 20ppm nitrAtes you might use RO water for 50% of your water. But generally your tap water is fine for fish.
b) A cycle takes 4-6 weeks, so nothing would be happening after 7 days, and nothing should be expected
c) If you have any results without dosing any ammonia source, it's from the bottled bacteria that you added. The bottled bacteria is often suspended in a weak ammonia solution, which will give an ammonia reading despite no dosing, especially when you dumped in the whole bottle. Not to overwhelm you with information but some of the bottled bacteria types will "eat" and produce some readings, but don't actually colonize your filter and build a permanent ecosystem. You need to obtain a source of pure ammonia as soon as possible to test your system with.

In any situation, after 7 days there is no expectation of a completed cycle. Using a source of ammonia you will see nitrites starting somewhere in the 7-10 day mark, but this is only the first leg of the cycle. With only the bottled bacteria none of your readings are necessarily indicative of any permanent bacterial colonization.
It is possible that your cycle may complete faster because of the bacterial additive, but in truth it is not an instant process even with that, and will still take a few weeks.

The only way you can be sure the bacteria "stuck" is to get some pure ammonia to dose the tank.
You also need to pick up some Prime water conditioner to de-chlorinate your tap water.

 

[kg123]

Good to know on the tap water vs RO.

Performed a pwc yesterday (40%) using tap water (de-chlorinated) realizing it can slow the cycle process down.

Test both tank and tap water (no filter/no additive) today (day 8) using API Master Kit and Tetra Eazy Strips, below are the numbers:

tank levels photo, picture, image on Use.com

Not sure how they look.. Clear dependencies between the two tests.


Picked up pure ammonia from ace hardware and intend on using this once ammonia levels drop.

On a good note plants seem to be ok.

 

[kg123]

Big ammonia drop today.

Nitrites and Nitrates are up.

Ammonia = 0ppm
Nitrite = 5ppm
Nitrate = 40ppm

Performed a pwc (20%) using tap water (dechlorinated) and 4 tiny drops of pure 10% ammonia for a 6 gallon tank. I'll check the water in an hour to see where that puts my ammonia level.

Think I'm on the up and up. To be honest the tank fishless cycle process has been fun.