Betta dropsy

[ButterstheAngel]

I've had 2 sick bettas for 3 days and have had them both in a small hospital tank treating with metronidazole. Both didn't have pinecone scales, but today one died and the living one has pinecone scales.

I put her in an epsom salt bath for 10 minutes then back into her hospital tank.

Continue epsom salt baths/how often? Should I also add Kanaplex? Should I euthanize? Should I just wait?

Please help

 

[ButterstheAngel]

She passed away- I’m so upset. I’d still like advice in case Butters the angel gets sick like this too, he’s in the same tank…

 

[Colin_T]

Hi

Sorry about your loss

Bettas can have a number of problems caused by inbreeding and poor sanitary conditions where they are bred in various fish farms around the world, but mainly in tropical Asia. If the fish did a stringy white poop, stopped eating and swelled up overnight, (scales sticking out is another possible symptom), then it had an internal bacterial infection and they usually die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. Death is caused by internal organ failure caused by the bacteria doing extensive damage to one or more internal organs.

The most common cause of internal bacterial infections nowadays is Fish Tuberculosis (TB). This can spread to other fish in the tank and tends to kill one here and one there. The fish all develop the same symptoms (stop eating, stringy white poop, death). There is no cure for Fish TB and once it's in a tank, it's there until you strip the tank and start again. If you do this, you usually kill any remaining fish and bury or burn the bodies, then start with new stock. The problem is you don't know if the new stock is free from the infection and fish can carry the Mycobacteria for months before developing any symptoms. So most people just say it's possibly in the tank and monitor the fish for those symptoms.

If it is Fish TB, you should try to avoid getting aquarium water on any open cuts, scratches or wounds because the Mycobacteria can cause localised infections in the skin and these need to be treated with antibiotics. If you have any cuts, scratches or open wounds, avoid working in the tank until they are healed; or wear rubber gloves and wash your hands and arms with warm soapy water after going in the tank.

If you get any small sores that don't heal after a couple of weeks, go to a doctor and tell them your fish might have Fish TB and ask them to take a swab of the wound and send it off for culturing and testing. The doctor will probably try to put you on antibiotics while you wait but tell them you want the results before taking anything. After you get the results, then take whatever medication is needed.

If you take antibiotics before the infection is properly identified, you can make the problem worse. A lot of Mycobacterium infections are resistant to various drugs and if the doctor prescribes you with a medication that the infection is immune to, you simply make the bacteria harder to kill.

If you need to do something while you wait, try rubbing raw honey into the wound and putting a tissue over it to stop it going everywhere. Remove the tissue twice a day and wash the wound with soapy water. Dry with another tissue and re-apply more honey. Do this for a week and it can sometimes help.

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Having now got you all concerned about Fish TB, it might have been another type of bacteria that caused this or organ failure caused by inbreeding. So don't panic too much, just monitor the remaining fish and avoid getting tank water on open wounds from now on.

 

[Colin_T]

If you have to move fish with internal infections, do not lift them out of the water because it can put pressure on the internal organs, which are already stressed, and can kill the fish. If you have to move them, use a net to carefully catch them (don't chase them around because that harms them too), then put a plastic container in the tank under the net. Lift the fish and net up in the container of water and move them to another container. Then carefully pour them out of the container and net.

Same deal goes for gravid (pregnant) livebearer fishes like guppies, platies, swordtails and mollies.

 

[ButterstheAngel]

Thanks for the information but I myself have not gotten sick. I am just wondering what the best treatment would be the next time I see a fish with the same symptoms. Metronidazole? Kavaplex? Epsom?

Do angelfish get fish TB?

I’m not sure how to start all the way over on this tank (with Butters, a betta, 10 cories) now that I’ve had this tank since July and it’s 20 gallons. Move Butters to a temporary small tank… then set this one back up for a month, then put him back? He hasn’t seemed ill… maybe he won’t get sick? If he got sick and it went anything like this- nothing would save him

 

[Colin_T]

Most people with a healthy immune system won't get Fish TB but I always provide some information about it just in case.

Any fish (freshwater, saltwater or brackish water) can catch Fish TB. It is extremely contagious and becoming more common in tanks.

There is no treatment for Fish TB and fish that stop eating, swell up overnight, and do a stringy white poop, should be euthanised.

If the remaining fish are fine, just monitor them for similar symptoms. If you want to do something now, you can do a big (75%) water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. that can dilute any disease organisms in the tank and reduce the chance of the remaining fish picking up something that isn't Fish TB. Apart from that, you can clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. Then just enjoy them.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

 

[ButterstheAngel]

Thanks I am working on cleaning up the filter and substrate for sure… good advice. Crossing my fingers it passes and no new fish for me!

 

[m.j.gomez]

Thanks I am working on cleaning up the filter and substrate for sure… good advice. Crossing my fingers it passes and no new fish for me!

Hello, just a heads up. You may want to clean tank in stages. If you clean out to much good bacteria you may get an ammonia spike or mini cycle & doing more harm than good.
I personally would clean substrate w/a 30% water change. Then wait 2-3days so beneficial bacteria has chance to catch up. Then do filter w/50% water change. If not satisfied w/results repeat. Be sure to test 12-24hrs after maintenance that everything is good. Hope this helps you!!!!!

 

[ButterstheAngel]

Ya I’ve been doing small biomedia, water, substrate cleanings. Does anyone think I should preemptively treat the whole tank with Metronidazole, Kavaplex, epsom or aquarium salt outside of this???

Trying to get ahead of more issues for Butters :/

 

[Colin_T]

Does anyone think I should preemptively treat the whole tank with Metronidazole, Kavaplex, epsom or aquarium salt outside of this???

Trying to get ahead of more issues for Butters :/

No.

Salt (sodium chloride) or Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) won't do anything to internal bacterial infections, regardless of what bacteria is involved.

Antibiotics like Metronidazole and Kanamycin (Kanaplex) should only be used on known bacterial infections that those particular medications work on. There are different types of bacteria (gram positive, gram negative) and they respond to different medications. If you use the wrong medication, you simply make that bacteria drug resistant to the medication. If another type of bacteria meets up with the drug resistant ones, they can swap genes and the drug resistance can spread to other species.

Without knowing exactly what species of bacteria caused the problem, and which strain of bacteria, there is no point adding antibiotics because you are simply throwing remedies at an unknown target.

If another fish develops the same symptoms, you can take it to a fish vet and have them kill it and necropsy (animal autopsy) the fish. Then they can take samples and look at them under a microscope or send them off to a lab for culturing. After that they can tell you exactly what caused the problem and which medication might help. But it will cost a bit of money so most people don't bother doing it.