Betta with ick?

[LuckyWanderer]

I have had my betta ned for about 8 days now and I started to notice these little white dots that were first on his head then disappeared then reappeared in numbers on his body and fins. I think it is ick and have been increasing the temperature from 80 to 85-86 over a 3 day period. The other day I got some amano shrimp so I'm a little scared about using medications. I am also not sure if shrimp can get ick? I don't have a quarantine tank to put ned in or the shrimp. Can I treat them in the main tank without any adverse affects on the tank cycle?

 

[Autumnsky]

Most meds for Ich have copper, or copper derivatives victoria green, or other things toxic to Shrimp. You will have the Ich in the tank though now and will need to treat it all, that's why temp might be your best bet.

Although shrimp do not get Ich they might have an Ich on them, so I might remove the shrimp from the heated treatment display tank, and add to a big gallon or larger container but before doing so water temp and gradually get the tank water combined/acclimated to the new water they will be in.

Give them a gentle swish and let the water settle, then just scoop up each shrimp into the new container with bubbler and heater of their own. Ich aren't supposed to live very long with out a fish body/host. Idea being to try and leave any little Ich in whichever life stage it is in, behind with the tank/acclimation water. The high heat will be too stressful for the shrimp, and meds usually poison during and after treatment, copper can still kill shrimp after pwc and treatment is done.

If you haven't read this, it may help give you the run down.
Freshwater Ich? Yuck! - Aquarium Advice

 

[LuckyWanderer]

Most meds for Ich have copper, or copper derivatives victoria green, or other things toxic to Shrimp. You will have the Ich in the tank though now and will need to treat it all, that's why temp might be your best bet.

Although shrimp do not get Ich they might have an Ich on them, so I might remove the shrimp from the heated treatment display tank, and add to a big gallon or larger container but before doing so water temp and gradually get the tank water combined/acclimated to the new water they will be in.

Give them a gentle swish and let the water settle, then just scoop up each shrimp into the new container with bubbler and heater of their own. Ich aren't supposed to live very long with out a fish body/host. Idea being to try and leave any little Ich in whichever life stage it is in, behind with the tank/acclimation water. The high heat will be too stressful for the shrimp, and meds usually poison during and after treatment, copper can still kill shrimp after pwc and treatment is done.

If you haven't read this, it may help give you the run down.
Freshwater Ich? Yuck! - Aquarium Advice

I took the shrimp out and returned them to the lfs where I got them from. While I was there they recommend me to use mardel ick cure. I also got some aquarium salt.

 

[Autumnsky]

Not absolutely positive but believe that heat and meds do not mix, so do hear or meds not both.

Also as a side note (mostly for future readers) about the heat method is to add a lot more air circulation /bubblers as the O2 availability is greatly reduced in hotter water.

 

[LuckyWanderer]

Not absolutely positive but believe that heat and meds do not mix, so do hear or meds not both.

Also as a side note (mostly for future readers) about the heat method is to add a lot more air circulation /bubblers as the O2 availability is greatly reduced in hotter water.

Alright I will work the heat down then. Have you used mardel ick cure before? Do I dose it every day after a water change? Also should I use the aquarium salt in conjunction with the mardel ick cure?

 

[Angellove78]

What I do is, water change a.s.a.p. vacuum the bottom. raise temp to 89-90 watch him, make sure he can handle it. Do it slowly. If you want to add salt (I do if it's bad) it will help him breath better. It will not do anything to kill the ich. As soon as you start seeing less white spots on him vacuum the bottom, wipe everything down, and water change 2@50% don't stress him out with bigger ones. I continue this every time I see less on him. You must know the life cycle of ich. When they fall off is when there are more floating around the tank. The sooner you get them with vacuuming and wiping, and water changes the better change you will have. Water changes, vacuum, wiping everything, is extremely important. By cranking up the heat you will make them fall off faster. If you feed him pellets, soak them in garlic juice. Garlic juice will build his immune system to be able to fight it better. I never use meds. Just salt sometimes and a lot of cleaning. Just gotta stay on it.

 

[Autumnsky]

Never used it.

 

[LuckyWanderer]

What I do is, water change a.s.a.p. vacuum the bottom. raise temp to 89-90 watch him, make sure he can handle it. Do it slowly. If you want to add salt (I do if it's bad) it will help him breath better. It will not do anything to kill the ich. As soon as you start seeing less white spots on him vacuum the bottom, wipe everything down, and water change 2@50% don't stress him out with bigger ones. I continue this every time I see less on him. You must know the life cycle of ich. When they fall off is when there are more floating around the tank. The sooner you get them with vacuuming and wiping, and water changes the better change you will have. Water changes, vacuum, wiping everything, is extremely important. By cranking up the heat you will make them fall off faster. If you feed him pellets, soak them in garlic juice. Garlic juice will build his immune system to be able to fight it better. I never use meds. Just salt sometimes and a lot of cleaning. Just gotta stay on it.

My lfs recommend me mardel and I have already dosed it for my tank as well as aquarium salt. The instructions are pretty vague so I'm just going to do wcs in the morning, with vacuuming as well. Then dose the tank again until hopefully I see some good results.

 

[Potluck]

Do not raise the temp up if you're doing medication, heat itself doesn't kill ich it shortens the life span, you don't need heat with meds and will deplete the water of oxygen even further as the meds deplete the oxygen by itself, also with ich comes secondary infections on occasion which will spread like wild fire at above 76, if you're doing meds leave the temp at 76-80 (when I had ich I kept mine at 77 and rid ich+ worked perfectly) I'm not sure if rid ich+ can be used for bettas though, if you do meds leave the heat alone, if you do heat don't add meds.

There's also strains of ich that are heat resistant., but as a precaution weather you use meds or heat get an air stone and a pump and turn it in full blast if you don't already have one.
Rid ich + is not invert safe but shrimp won't get ich so qt the shrimp and dose the main tank, after you see the last spot continue treatment for 3-5 days , but as I said I dont know if you can use rid ich + on bettas, after your final treatment do 30 - 50% water change add cheap activated carbon to filter, let run 24-48 hours remove and throw away , reintroduce the shrimp.

If you have carbon in the filter remove it, if it's a cartridge style cut a slit in the material and shake carbon out

 

[LuckyWanderer]

Do not raise the temp up if you're doing medication, heat itself doesn't kill ich it shortens the life span, you don't need heat with meds and will deplete the water of oxygen even further as the meds deplete the oxygen by itself, also with ich comes secondary infections on occasion which will spread like wild fire at above 76, if you're doing meds leave the temp at 76-80 (when I had ich I kept mine at 77 and rid ich+ worked perfectly) I'm not sure if rid ich+ can be used for bettas though, if you do meds leave the heat alone, if you do heat don't add meds.

There's also strains of ich that are heat resistant., but as a precaution weather you use meds or heat get an air stone and a pump and turn it in full blast if you don't already have one.
Rid ich + is not invert safe but shrimp won't get ich so qt the shrimp and dose the main tank, after you see the last spot continue treatment for 3-5 days , but as I said I dont know if you can use rid ich + on bettas, after your final treatment do 30 - 50% water change add cheap activated carbon to filter, let run 24-48 hours remove and throw away , reintroduce the shrimp.

If you have carbon in the filter remove it, if it's a cartridge style cut a slit in the material and shake carbon out

The meds I'm using are mardel ick cure. The man at my lfs said they use it for their fish and it should clear in 3 to 4 days then continue dosing the meds for 3 to 4 days to make sure all ick is dead. Im also using aquarium salt, though a lot of people say it does nothing to kill the ick its self.

 

[Angellove78]

The meds I'm using are mardel ick cure. The man at my lfs said they use it for their fish and it should clear in 3 to 4 days then continue dosing the meds for 3 to 4 days to make sure all ick is dead. Im also using aquarium salt, though a lot of people say it does nothing to kill the ick its self.

Just follow the directions. Meds are meds. Some work better than others for different fish. All you can do is wait and see. But if it gets worse, just be careful if you up the dose, or try something else.

 

[Potluck]

The meds I'm using are mardel ick cure. The man at my lfs said they use it for their fish and it should clear in 3 to 4 days then continue dosing the meds for 3 to 4 days to make sure all ick is dead. Im also using aquarium salt, though a lot of people say it does nothing to kill the ick its self.

Yes the ich should start to go away within a few days, after you see no more spots dose 3-5 days longer if you have activated carbon in your filter right now you have to remove it or the meds will be rendered null (if its new it will if its over 3-4 weeks probably won't affect the meds)

add new activated carbon in the filter after dosing, activated carbon removes meds... discard activated carbon after 24-48 hours reintroduce shrimp


Don't add anymore salt

 

[LuckyWanderer]

Yes the ich should start to go away within a few days, after you see no more spots dose 3-5 days longer if you have activated carbon in your filter right now you have to remove it or the meds will be rendered null (if its new it will if its over 3-4 weeks probably won't affect the meds)

add new activated carbon in the filter after dosing, activated carbon removes meds... discard activated carbon after 24-48 hours reintroduce shrimp


Don't add anymore salt

I only have a sponge filter so can I just do a big WC to get the meds out once treatment is finshed? Regarding the salt, I only added about 1/4 teaspoon and when I do water changes every morning I add back way less than that to the tank to keep concentration up.

 

[Potluck]

I only have a sponge filter so can I just do a big WC to get the meds out once treatment is finshed? Regarding the salt, I only added about 1/4 teaspoon and when I do water changes every morning I add back way less than that to the tank to keep concentration up.

Don't add back any salt, and yes you can do a big water change to remove the meds, but I would do 2 one after treatment (no larger than 50%) and another a few days after to make sure the meds are completely gone.

 

[LuckyWanderer]

Ned now has no ick on his body. I know they are probably still floating in the tank so I will keep treating for 3-4 more days. On a side note, I have been seeing that his dorsal and caudal fin have been "thinning"? (No hole, but looks like one, loss of color in thinned areas) I know its not fin rot because the thinned areas don't have any dead tissue. I read some articles online and the only thing that I can think of is "blowout" from constantly flaring all the time. His tank has one led right in the middle of the lid which causes everywhere not under the light to be darker. I ordered another light to install to try to help with dark spots on the glass. Have you had/heard this? What can I do to help heal him?

 

[Autumnsky]

Could be damage from ammonia living in the cup and ill health and stress just causing poor general health as well I would recommend some Indian Almond Leaves, if they are large cut in 1 inch strips about 3 inches long and scatter them all around.

IAL are said to have antibacterial properties, and the tannins will assist in conditioning the body and fins, in essence toughening them.

Also some Mopani or Malaysian DW for getting some serious tannins in the water.

Good food maybe some frozen variety pack you can slice off some from the cube and suck up left overs with a turkey baster (dollar store) or get a snail.

Just needs a chance to get healthy.

Some kind of floating plant for him to rest in at the top of the tank, or Betta log.

Let him be calm and get healthy again.

 

[LuckyWanderer]

Could be damage from ammonia living in the cup and ill health and stress just causing poor general health as well I would recommend some Indian Almond Leaves, if they are large cut in 1 inch strips about 3 inches long and scatter them all around.

IAL are said to have antibacterial properties, and the tannins will assist in conditioning the body and fins, in essence toughening them.

Also some Mopani or Malaysian DW for getting some serious tannins in the water.

Good food maybe some frozen variety pack you can slice off some from the cube and suck up left overs with a turkey baster (dollar store) or get a snail.

Just needs a chance to get healthy.

Some kind of floating plant for him to rest in at the top of the tank, or Betta log.

Let him be calm and get healthy again.

He has some salvinia on the top of the tank. I have dw in the tank. I'm not sure if it leeches tannins though. Do you think it could be ph, I have very soft water. Kh is usually 1 while gh is 3. Ph is usually 6.4 to 6. I posted about this and general consensus was don't mess with ph keep it stable. Do you think I could treat it with aquarium salt and WCs? I might get frozen bloodworms but I have omega one freeze dried bloodworms that I feed him along with aqueon betta food and fluval bug bites.

 

[Angellove78]

Did he flare when you first got him? If not it's probably the meds. Might be too strong for him. But, 2... he has ich. Maybe it's just stress. Do the fins look melted? Is another thing. Stress on betta's causes A lot of damage all around. Think the best thing you can do. Is keep the light low or cut it for a while. Turn it on a little before you feed him, and finish up the treatment and see if he looks any better after a few days of last treatment, alone with your water changes, and vacuuming.

 

[LuckyWanderer]

87

Did he flare when you first got him? If not it's probably the meds. Might be too strong for him. But, 2... he has ich. Maybe it's just stress. Do the fins look melted? Is another thing. Stress on betta's causes A lot of damage all around. Think the best thing you can do. Is keep the light low or cut it for a while. Turn it on a little before you feed him, and finish up the treatment and see if he looks any better after a few days of last treatment, alone with your water changes, and vacuuming.

Since the first day I took him home hes been flaring constantly. He mostIy does it near the sponge filter out flow of bubbles and near a bunch of floating plants where he builds his bubble nest. I dont think its the medication, because before I started treatment he had one thinning spot on his dorsal fin. The most damage is on his dorsal fin, and his caudal fin just started to look like this. I ordered some IALs online. I know that tannins from dw can lower ph and I have 2 pieces in his tank, but will the IALs lower it more? The most I can get it to is 6.4 but by the next day its always 6.