Help/advice needed for possiable breeding Kenyi cichlid.

[jasno999]

I have Kenyi Cichlids in my 29gallon tank. I started with 2 females and one male. I wanted to get 2 more females cause it is better for addression issues but I could never find the exact same type at any of the LFS. Then one day a year back I had a temperature issue and one of the females died. I purchased another but he never grew and I think the issues is that the younger one is actualyl a male that will not turen yellow because he is scared of the other male.

To my point. I recently noticed that my blue female was acting a bit funny and not eating much. I watched here and she lieks to hide but I think I might see eggs in her mouth. I can't be 100% but her behaviousr and the fact that she does not eat leads me to beleive that she could have eggs in her mouth.

My question is this: What do I do from here on in? What water temperatures and parameters shoudl I maintain?

And also when the eggs do finally hatch what do I do? Will the other fish eat the newborn? Do I need to get them out with a net and put them in some type of protected area or a different tank alltogether?

 

[TCTFish]

It's easier to catch her out and put her in a tank of her own to spit the babies out when ready. Then she can go back into her tank and the fry can be reared in this other tank away from the adults. Yes...they can eat the babies if given the opportunity. Some may be able to hide in a crannie long enough to grow to a safe size to mingle with the adults, but if caught out in the open...they do become a snack.

Water temps should be stable between 78 and 80 degrees and water parameters should be free of ammonia, nitrite and have low nitrate (I recommend below 30 ppm). pH the same as it is for the adults (7.8 to 8.0 for Malawi cichlids). If you are unable to set up another tank, you could add porous rocks in the tank and some low lying plants...fake is easier and less likely to get tore up by the other fish. This can offer hiding spots for the fry the adults are unable to get to because they're just too big to get to the small spaces the fry can fit in.

 

[TCTFish]

but he never grew and I think the issues is that the younger one is actualyl a male that will not turen yellow because he is scared of the other male.

I forgot to note about this before...

When it comes to cichlids as well as other fish, these animals can change sex when the environment permits it. If there is already one mature male, most likely the others will remain female. No such thing as a blue male Kenyi and a yellow female and needless to have more than one male within a certain amount of space to the number of females in that space. Know what I mean? Though I have seen those in between the color change have fry, so I don't think they are fully male until they are fully yellow. BTW...female is the default sex for most animals. This is what they are born as. Any male genetic coding allows them to change if the environment permits it.

 

[jasno999]

I don't think that is fully correct. I am not the expert so I maybe you are right but from what I understand they are borm male and female but they are all blue in color until they reacy a ceartain length or age. Then the males turn yellow.

I think I have 2 males and the younger one is sub dominant so he is tryign to keep his blue color so that the other male will not go after him. Right now he is a very pale blue as compared to the other female. YOu can see he has signes of turning yellow but he is fighting it.

 

[TCTFish]

Every female has the potential of turning male when certainties of the environment are met...such as a lack of males. If there are no males in the vicinity, someone is turning male whether they carried the male chromasome from their egg or not. It's a phenomena of fish that have carried into amphibians during the course of evolution. Some of that potential may be within some reptiles, but I doubt very many. Then the XX and XY chromasomes become more definite and defined to the indivdual and the animal becomes male upon maturity regardless of the male/female ratio.

There is still much about the physical abilities of fish left to be discovered. Don't forget, fish are millions of years ahead of us in evolution.

I think I have 2 males and the younger one is sub dominant so he is tryign to keep his blue color so that the other male will not go after him. Right now he is a very pale blue as compared to the other female.

That paled blue fish you're calling male can produce eggs as a female and therefore is female until the fish is able to take a dominate role and turn fully yellow. THEN it is male and able to contribute sperm instead of eggs.

African Rift Lake cichlids are perhaps one of the more interesting families of fish to observe this phenomena.

On a flip side, I have heard though never really confirmed allegations of males turning back to female. There have been some customers over the years stating they had a tank full of males then one of them loses their coloring and becomes chased by every male in the tank. In each case, it was a peacock species that was said to have changed.

There are fish the default sex is actually male. This is evident in clownfish. They are all born male and then given the opportunities of the environment (the male/female ratio), a juvenile carrying the female chromasome continues to grow whereas a male stays small. If the environment already has enough males or single in a tank, that juvenile clownfish upon maturity will continue to grow and become female because of the pressures of the environment 'call' for it.

This sex change on demand is a survival tactic that has worked for millions of years. There are many critters out there that defy our common knowledge of reproduction.

 

[jasno999]

Still waiting.

 

[TCTFish]

What are you waiting for? Did I miss something??? LOL. Or are you still waiting for your fish to change?

 

[jasno999]

Waiting for the hatching

 

[TCTFish]

Is her throat extended? Here's a neat picture...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a302/SpydrWorks/Temporary/yllwzebrawfry.jpg

It took me about 30 shots to get this one. I'm quite thankful for digital cameras...LOL!!

 

[maxwell1295]

That is a great pic!

 

[jasno999]

Nope. She either aborted, ate the egs, they hatched and were eaten or never fertalized.

She is up and about again and is eating anyhting I feed them and obviously not carryign any eggs in her mought. I realyl think that she was but there are no newborns and no eggs anyplace.

Wil lsee what happens now. The male has been acting a bit wierd and has been hovering in this new spor above the rocks in a corner of the tank. Maybe they will try mating again.

 

[TCTFish]

Maybe they will try mating again.

They're like rabbits...LOL. Shouldn't be any problems there.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Many new mothers will swallow their eggs for the first batch. One of my Kenyi's was holding a few months ago and the day that we were going to pull her from the tank, the bulge was gone. This past week when we were doing water changes I found 4 Kenyi fry hiding in the rock structure.

 

[jasno999]

how long till th next batch of eggs comes along???

How big are the fry?

 

[TCTFish]

Time in between batches vary. Africans breed all year long, but there seems to be a heightened sense of activity early Spring and throughout the summer months. Just look out for breeding behavior and her throat extending like a pouch.

The fry are small but visible. I can fit one in my pinkie nail or two.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Batch times vary. We have a peacock that pops out a new batch about every 4 weeks. Our cobalts breed maybe once every 2 or 3 months and the Kenyi's have only bred once so far.

The size of the fry depends on the size of the mother. They will be pretty small though. Here's a pic of our cobalt fry after the mother released: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=9358&ppuser=7894

 

[Seepu]

I missed this post, while obsessing about my Kenyi fry... heres a few photos of them... This is her 3rd brood (no fry), the first I stripped from her.. and have 8 fry in the breeder box, and she still has some more in her mouth. I didnt want to stress her out too much, and after getting these guys out.. she just wouldnt open her mouth anymore with gentle persuasion.

They are probably only about as long as a pencil is thick... fully formed blue with stripes and all. (one seems to have tiny beady little eyes.. compared to the other fry.. but Im watching him.. hes (?) healthy, nibbling on crushed flake and boiled egg yolk)

I put the female in a breeder box in the MT, about 14 days out from breeding... and was hoping she would spit them there.. but 2 days later.. she was looking stressed and I felt I needed to get her out.. so I took the fry from her... and they are in the breeder box while my QT finishes (re)cycling.

 

[TCTFish]

Cutie little ones, aren't they???...LOL

 

[Seepu]

They are cuties... I grabbed the momma out again today.. see if I could 'persuade' her to spit some more... and now we have 20 fry, with momma still holding a few more... Glad I upgraded to the 125!!!

 

[jasno999]

Well I think my breeding is over now. Not sure what happened but read my post:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=76640&highlight=


Now I really wish I could find somebody willign to sell or give me a adult male Kenyi for my tank. But even if I did find that I think it woudl nto work cause he would probably destroy the otehr fish in my tank since he does not know them and did not grow up with them.