The Unexpected Breeder

[MooseMama]

I currently have at least 26 platy fry unexpectedly swimming in my bathroom. And if that isn't a cry for help, I don't know what is!

Three weeks ago I "inherited" an aquarium with two pregnant platy females. They had recently given birth, based on the fact that the aquarium also contained two very small fry, one only a week or two old and the other at least a few weeks. I was too late to separate the females from the male before they could get pregnant again in order to give their bodies time to recover.

It has been about 15 years since my last aquarium, so I'm working on memory, instinct, and online research based on issues as they arise.

It was a long weekend, and knowing that the females were very close to birth, I brought them home in their own aquarium water, put them in a location where the temperature would be the same as in their aquarium and kept removing uneaten food, debris, and poop.

They gave birth and then died. I felt awful, though realised that birthing again so soon, coupled with the move of coming home with me for the weekend could have caused enough stress to kill them.

The baby platies (at least 26 have survived) seem to be doing really well. Keep in mind that these are not (technically) my fish, and I am very limited as to resources. I have what was already in the classroom and what little there is at my small, local pet shop. I am far away from, well, everything.

Here's what I've done (and am doing): the babies are getting a water change daily as they are in a small uncycled tank. The water is conditioned and at the same temperature as the water they were in. The water change is done very slowly over a period of at least 2 1/2 hours to make sure they have time to adjust. I've made a make-shift sponge filter using the sponge part from the filter in the aquarium and a aerator stone. They have a large, fake plant, also from the original aquarium, which may provide some beneficial bacteria (and in which they also seem to really enjoy hiding). I've been crushing into a powder a mixture of freeze-dried bloodworms, tropical fish flakes, and "bug bites," to feed them three times daily. I'm sucking up any debris, food remains, or poo frequently to minimize on ammonia.

That's it. That's all I can think of to do. I have no access to water testing. I have no source of live (or even frozen) food. I have no Prime. I had no knowledge of platies, or breeding, but I feel like I'm taking a crash course. I do have high-quality water, an aquarium that is (to the best of my knowledge) cycled (with heater, substrate, and now a solitary male platy, a male guppy, and a very young platy), a small aquarium (with 26 fry, media and a plant from the original aquarium, a stone aerator, and a heater if needed, though at its present location its temperature is 78F, so I haven't had to turn it on). My plan is to put them in the primary aquarium as soon as they are large enough that they are unlikely to be eaten by the other fish.

Is there anything I could be doing that I haven't already done? Is there anything I should change? I've got water testing materials on request, but getting them could take a while. I have already spent more of my own funds than I should have, and I need not tell anyone here what a commitment of time this has been.

And tomorrow, I need to tell a classroom of students that both mamas died this weekend.

So, that's my story. I'm still so overwhelmed with what is happening at present that I can't even begin to process what will happen as these babies mature. That will be a different problem for a different thread. For right now, any help, encouragement, or suggestions are welcome!
-MooseMama

 

[Andy Sager]

The best you can do is keep up with the water changes and removal of the detritus and uneaten food. With 26 fry, you will eventually need to use a larger aquarium or split the fry into the 2 containers in your picture or possibly add another. Another option for when you reach the point that the fry need to be separated is to place a divider in the main tank at school and place the fry on one side and the other fish on the other until the fry are large enough that they shouldn't get eaten.

Platy fry, like most livebearer fry, are pretty self sufficient when they are born so you really only need to make to sure they get food, clean water and space to grow. ( A place to hide would also be needed if they remained in the main aquarium.)
Sadly, yes, when pregnant livebearers are moved too close to birthing time, they do not handle the stress too well so they die. In the future, should you try this again with new females, better to add a divider to the tank so that they can give birth without needing to be moved.

 

[MooseMama]

"Should you try this again..."


Nope! Nope! No way! This is not something I ever intended on trying in the first place and my plan upon returning to school was to give that adult male platy to another teacher with a platy-free aquarium so there would be no more surprise pregnancies.


Back in the day, I remember it taking weeks, (maybe months) of research, planning, assembling the right gear, cycling, and water testing just to properly prepare for adult fish and at the time I was thinking that I wouldn't ever want to be a breeder because there is so much more involved.


What I'm doing now is mostly about damage control. Happily, the fry (who have communally been dubbed "Shark Bait OoHaHa" by my daughter) seems to be doing great. I can't believe that they already appear to be growing. The faster the better, so they can be large enough to put back in the main aquarium safely. They were so small at birth that if they had been born in the breeder box they could easily have swum out the water-flow slits. (What's the point of a breeder box that has slits that large, I'd like to know!)

 

[Andy Sager]

"Should you try this again..."


Nope! Nope! No way! This is not something I ever intended on trying in the first place and my plan upon returning to school was to give that adult male platy to another teacher with a platy-free aquarium so there would be no more surprise pregnancies.


Back in the day, I remember it taking weeks, (maybe months) of research, planning, assembling the right gear, cycling, and water testing just to properly prepare for adult fish and at the time I was thinking that I wouldn't ever want to be a breeder because there is so much more involved.


What I'm doing now is mostly about damage control. Happily, the fry (who have communally been dubbed "Shark Bait OoHaHa" by my daughter) seems to be doing great. I can't believe that they already appear to be growing. The faster the better, so they can be large enough to put back in the main aquarium safely. They were so small at birth that if they had been born in the breeder box they could easily have swum out the water-flow slits. (What's the point of a breeder box that has slits that large, I'd like to know!)

Breeder boxes are not for every specie. Some fry are larger than others.
As for "Nope! Nope! No way! " ( lol) the only way to ensure that won't happen again is to be watchful of the fry and when the males become sexually mature, the anal fin will roll up and become the gonopodium. ( They become sexually mature as early as 2-3 months old) You will need to separate those males from the rest of the group A.S.A.P. to prevent the females from becoming impregnated. Unfortunately all livebearer fry look like females when born and only after they mature do they show the difference. There are also " latent" males who are the ones that delay maturity until the "Alpha" male leaves so you need to keep checking all the time for "new" males to remove them.

 

[MooseMama]

Give me time to learn to care for fry before throwing more baby fish at me! As I said, I'm in damage control phase, not yet to long-term plan phase.

Here's what I've got planned so far:
1) Clean water, stable temperature, and frequent feeding until they are large enough to safely introduce to the cycled aquarium. (Could this be done once they're large enough to not get out of the breeder box, or would it be more beneficial to keep them in the 1.5 gallon so they have more space to swim around. It would come down to a cost-benefit analysis between more room or a stable, cycled aquarium.)

2) Put the toe of a nylon over the intake of the filter so they don't get sucked up. (I remember doing this to protect the fins of a betta once. But I can't remember how I held it on. Would a rubber elastic be safe?)

3) Start watching for the day that I can sex them and separate the males from the females. I have no idea yet as to how I will keep them separated.

I am assuming that there will be losses along the way. With 26 now (and that's an estimate; the little critters don't want to hold still to be counted), how many are likely to make it to adulthood? The rule of thumb that I learned was 1 gallon per 1 inch of fish body length. The aquarium in the classroom will not be sufficient for that many adults!

 

[Andy Sager]

Give me time to learn to care for fry before throwing more baby fish at me! As I said, I'm in damage control phase, not yet to long-term plan phase.

Here's what I've got planned so far:
1) Clean water, stable temperature, and frequent feeding until they are large enough to safely introduce to the cycled aquarium. (Could this be done once they're large enough to not get out of the breeder box, or would it be more beneficial to keep them in the 1.5 gallon so they have more space to swim around. It would come down to a cost-benefit analysis between more room or a stable, cycled aquarium.)

2) Put the toe of a nylon over the intake of the filter so they don't get sucked up. (I remember doing this to protect the fins of a betta once. But I can't remember how I held it on. Would a rubber elastic be safe?)

3) Start watching for the day that I can sex them and separate the males from the females. I have no idea yet as to how I will keep them separated.

I am assuming that there will be losses along the way. With 26 now (and that's an estimate; the little critters don't want to hold still to be counted), how many are likely to make it to adulthood? The rule of thumb that I learned was 1 gallon per 1 inch of fish body length. The aquarium in the classroom will not be sufficient for that many adults!

If you have one of those hang on back filters, it's been found to not be good to restrict the intake as it causes the motor to run hotter. Better to switch to an air driven filter like a sponge filter where the fry not only won't get sucked up and the sponge will develop a food source for the fry.

The inch per gallon rule has basically been replaced do to the unreliability of the formula. ( EG: 10 1" neons can live in a 10 gal tank while one 10" Oscar can not live in a 10 gal tank. ) What size is the main tank?

The fry will grow faster outside of the breeder box. The more space they have, the better they will grow.

Truthfully, I'd be keeping the males in the main tank and rehoming the females. Males are a little smaller than females so you can have more with little fear of them getting pregnant.

 

[MooseMama]

All the fish are back at school (and thankfully out of my bathroom) and the fry seem to be thriving! The students, while disappointed about the mothers, are very enthusiastic about the babies.

Thank you for your help!

 

[Andy Sager]

 

[MooseMama]

The platy fry are active, growing, and our actual total is 28!

With daily water changes their ammonia level has been kept at .5 or lower. Their pH is 7.4 and I haven't lost any more than those original three who died within a day. (Well, one might have been fed to a betta, but that was purely for the purposes of scientific inquiry!)

Question: should I expect any more unintended losses? All of these have survived a week now, and for some reason I thought more would have died. Either they are extremely hearty or I am doing a very good job of debris removal and water changing.

They've grown so much that I'm actually able to distinguish that a few of them that they came from the spotted orange platy mother because they are developing spots, just like the adolescent in the main tank. It's fascinating!

Photographic update:

 

[Andy Sager]

The platy fry are active, growing, and our actual total is 28!

With daily water changes their ammonia level has been kept at .5 or lower. Their pH is 7.4 and I haven't lost any more than those original three who died within a day. (Well, one might have been fed to a betta, but that was purely for the purposes of scientific inquiry!)

Question: should I expect any more unintended losses? All of these have survived a week now, and for some reason I thought more would have died. Either they are extremely hearty or I am doing a very good job of debris removal and water changing.

They've grown so much that I'm actually able to distinguish that a few of them that they came from the spotted orange platy mother because they are developing spots, just like the adolescent in the main tank. It's fascinating!

Photographic update:

The rate for fish of surviving from egg to breeding adult is only 10%. The breakdown is some die from genetics, some from predation and some die from combat or disease. In an aquarium setting you can rule out the ones that would naturally die from predation. ( Except the one that was used for " experimental " reasons. ) So yes, you may lose some more along the way. However, in your case, any amount more than 3 that make it to breeding adults means you did a good job and you beat the odds.

 

[MooseMama]

An Update

There has been, in my classroom, so much drama around these little fish! And with the drastic weather, long weekends, and daily 100% water changes, I have felt in the past few weeks that I've been eating, sleeping, and breathing fish. (In fact, they regularly feature in my dreams.)

A week and a half ago disaster struck for one of my fellow teachers, who had a small (5 gallon) aquarium in her home and she lost her son's remaining fish (he's away at college). Which left her with a fully cycled tank with no fish in it. From her description of the issues I strongly suspected high nitrate, checked the tank, and sure enough, with multiple water changes, it was able to be made fry-ready.

I used pure ammonia to check the cycle, tested a lot, transported the aquarium to the school, and got it set up. It's even planted, with java ferns that are propagating like crazy (high nitrates?).

48 hours ago, I spent a few hours acclimatizing and transferring the fry into the aquarium. I've noticed no losses, they're eating well, and really seem to like swimming around the plants. I am so glad not to have to do daily water changes anymore. It has freed up so much time!

My main question now is, in a tank this small, with fry, how often should I be checking the water parameters? In a normal tank I'd think weekly, but should it be more frequent with a tank this small or with fry in it?

I'm adding a photo of my happy fry for your viewing pleasure. Watching them become accustomed to their new tank has certainly brought me and my class much joy!

 

[Andy Sager]

In a tank that small, usually I'd check every 3rd day and because you have such small fry in the tank, it's easy for food to be missed and cause issues if it stays too long. Depending on the test results, you may only need to do a water change once a week.
On the whole, a 5 gallon is okay for some fry for a while but they will not live an entire lifetime in a 5 gallon tank. It's too small for them. How many fry did you place in the tank?

 

[MooseMama]

Nope, this is NOT the permanent solution!

There are currently 17 fry in the tank, and yes, it is way, way too small for that many adult platies! This is a just a more-stable next step.

If all the fry currently surviving continue to survive, I have promised the owner of this aquarium 2-3 platies, which I figure would be the top range of the bio-load for the tank. ( It had a school of 3 glo-tetras in it before.)

Several students have shown interest in having some of the fish, so we are doing a unit on fish keeping, aquariums, and the nitrogen cycle and water testing to prepare them for the possibility. As a bonus, this will also mean that more than one student will be able to help me do aquarium care in the classroom.

The 15-20 gallon tank in the classroom will be able to safely house 2-3 more platies. (I am determined that they will all be male!)

Any remaining, surviving fry will be offered to those associated with the school who already have aquariums and if any are left after that, I will be contacting the two closest LFS (that's a drive of 2-3 hours away) to see if they will take them.

Please, keep in mind that I've been spending 1-2 hours every day, on good days, making water changes. On storm days or weekends, it's been 2-3 hours a day, on average, because I have to either drive to the school to change the water or take an extra hour or two on at least two of those days for preparing the fry for transport to my home. If I can buy a few weeks to a couple months of twice-to-thrice weekly water testings and once-to-twice weekly partial water changes, I'm looking at a minimum of 10 hours less work a week until they are too large to be in that aquarium.

 

[Andy Sager]

There are currently 17 fry in the tank, and yes, it is way, way too small for that many adult platies! This is a just a more-stable next step.

If all the fry currently surviving continue to survive, I have promised the owner of this aquarium 2-3 platies, which I figure would be the top range of the bio-load for the tank. ( It had a school of 3 glo-tetras in it before.)

Several students have shown interest in having some of the fish, so we are doing a unit on fish keeping, aquariums, and the nitrogen cycle and water testing to prepare them for the possibility. As a bonus, this will also mean that more than one student will be able to help me do aquarium care in the classroom.

The 15-20 gallon tank in the classroom will be able to safely house 2-3 more platies. (I am determined that they will all be male!)

Any remaining, surviving fry will be offered to those associated with the school who already have aquariums and if any are left after that, I will be contacting the two closest LFS (that's a drive of 2-3 hours away) to see if they will take them.

Please, keep in mind that I've been spending 1-2 hours every day, on good days, making water changes. On storm days or weekends, it's been 2-3 hours a day, on average, because I have to either drive to the school to change the water or take an extra hour or two on at least two of those days for preparing the fry for transport to my home. If I can buy a few weeks to a couple months of twice-to-thrice weekly water testings and once-to-twice weekly partial water changes, I'm looking at a minimum of 10 hours less work a week until they are too large to be in that aquarium.

Platies are really too large for a 5 gallon tank as they like to swim around. 2-3 adults in that size tank will be a problem long term. The fry are fine for now but if you have all 28 in there they won't be in there for long. Expect more die offs from the weaker ones. ( That might actually be a benefit for you. Just sayin'. )