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Old 09-12-2008, 11:22 PM   #1
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injured guppy and frog, related?

I am new to this forum and aquariums. Having done some research online in the last days I realize that I made a lot of mistakes, including adding too many fish to quickly. Question is how to fix it. Here goes:
I have a 15 gallon tank with an aquatec 5-15 powerfilter. In it a dwarf gourami, dalmatian molly, two danios, two guppies (male and female), two tetras, 4 tiny ghost shrimp and a little pleco. Gravel on the bottom, 4 different (real) plants and a fake tree trunk ornament. The shrimp and pleco immediately moved into the ornament. The pleco only comes out at night, the shrimp never. Everybody seemed happy on a diet of tetracolor flakes twice a day, and some freeze dried tubifex every other day. The molly had babies who I put into a separate little tank where they seem to thrive.

About 3 days ago a couple thing changed:
I moved the aquatec filter to the tank with the molly fry and replaced it with a new penquin biowheel 100. It looked like the tank went a bit cloudy for a day but is all clear again now. The penquin filter is the same size but creates quite a bit more flow. I also started feeding a bit of TopFin Small Freeze Dried Medly once a day, which looks like a mix of dried up bugs. It appears to make the danios and gourami quite a bit more agressive when feeding. I also added an African dwarf frog.

The next morning the female guppy had red scratch on her side, about same size and color as her gill, but further back. Initially she was hiding in a corner of the aquarium, but now swimming around as usual. Also one of the frog's front legs is now covered in white fuzzy stuff and looking nasty. I put him in the plastic breeder tank for the time being. Apart from the gourami being a bit more assertive I did not really observe any hostility between fish.

What happened? Is one of my fish hurting the others? Is the frog problem the result of an injury or an unrelated disease? Should I move the frog out (and back to PetSmart; he is still under warranty)? Any suggestions for changes to the mix of fish?

Thanks

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Old 09-13-2008, 02:17 AM   #2
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By moving the filter you most likely caused a mini cycle in the tank with the new filter... probably the reason for your cloudy water.

First off we need to know your water parameters (pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp).

IMHO you are overstocked...

Did you cycle this tank before adding your current fish?
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Old 09-13-2008, 11:06 AM   #3
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You put a brand new filter in the tank to increase flow. But did you use any of the filter material from your old filter to help stock the new filter with the good guys who eat up the bad stuff?
If you didn't, this is very well part of the problem. It will take a bit for the good bacteria to grow, you should problaby do a few small water changes to help keep the ammonia down until the new filter is seeded.
YOu could go get some biospira, they have it shelf stable now. That would help out a lot. In case you don't know about biospira, it instantly adds the good bacteria that you want to have a fully cycled filter and tank. I've used it many times before, and still do if I do an excessive cleaning. YOu can have too few bacteria, but not too many.

I've had dwarf frogs for a long time. The fuzzy stuff is an infection most likely due to an injury. The new filter and extra bioload isn't helping the water quality for him or the guppy to get better. You should, besides the water changes and adding biospira treat the tank with at least pimafix and melafix. Frogs are sensitive, too much melafix and you might hurt him. It's better to give the frog half doses for longer. Perhaps move him to another tank or bucket as he is not as strong or quick to get away from someone who may want to pick on him.

If you can, a few more live plants can't hurt.

Good luck. Keep us posted.
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Old 09-13-2008, 11:43 AM   #4
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Thanks for the quick responses. I ordered $50 worth of test kit and chemicals from Foster and Smith, and I will post the water values when I get it. Unfortunately the frog died this morning. The white fuzz spread to his back. We only had him for 3 days, and I never saw him eat, so maybe we got him already sick from PetSmart. I did a 1/3 water change. I took the (still wet) very course biofilter pad from my original power filter and stuck it in the same spot of my new filter, just before the power wheel. Hopefully that will help get some of those good bacteria on the wheel until I get the Biospira.

Here are a couple more beginners questions: during feeding I switch off the powerfilter for 3 to 5 minutes, to keep the food from immediately getting all through the tank. Does this mess up my biowheel? It does not look like anything is growing on it yet.

Also, I think we have hard and heavily chlorinated tap water here in Florida. We do not use a water softener, but have a regular "fridge" type drinking water filter, that does seem to remove a good part of the chlorine. To do a water change I fill a large jug from the filter, pour in some AquaPlus tap water conditioner and a bit of aquarium salt, hang the airstone in and let it bubble for 30 minutes. Is that good enough? Would it be better to put a big bucket outside and collect rain water to use as a water supply? Maybe grow some plants and snails in it?

Sorry if this seems basic and thanks for the help.
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Old 09-13-2008, 05:26 PM   #5
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Sorry to hear about your frog. They are incredibly cool! Mine would ea bloodworms from my hand. And he would guard them from a big goldfish!
Bring him back and get a refund. DOn't get a new one until we find out how your water is. You can, and I believe must bring a water sample to Petsmart with a return. Bring 2. One from your tap (label each), and one from your tank. The Petsmart here uses the strips to test, but it will give you a pretty accurate result.
(I myself have tested my water and then brought a sample to them to compare, of course I didn't tell them I just tested at home.)

When your test kits come in, retest your water. Both tap and tank. This will help you know what to do with water changes. For a dechlorinator I use either "Start Right" or "Prime" which seems to be more cost effective. It's hard for me to change products, I've used start right for over 10 years. The Prime I've used off and on for about a year, and exclusively for about 4 months or so. No problems. If you have a good decholr then you can use your tap water strait out. Perhaps if your's is really bad as you think, you can fill a bucket or two, 24-48 hours prior to the water change and let them just sit out in the air. (not outside). We used to fill 6 milk jugs with water, leave the caps off and line them up the stairwell for a week. (That was a long long time ago).

Turning off the filter for a few minutes will not affect your good bacteria. If left off for hours, then the part of the wheel that got dry may have gotten killed off.

Your current method is fine, if not a bit complicated. Not really sure if the bubbling is necessary, but it certainly is not hurting anything.

In reguards to the rain water... my neighbor uses only rain water to water his garden, He starts it quite early indoors and it is so much bigger than anyone elses by May. He says his secret is to only use rain water. Now on the other hand, I always thought that the first few hours or rain are not good because it has all the air pollutants in it. But after that, it would be fine. So, that's something you can decide to play with. I imagine the plants and snails would help clean up any toxins., but what happens if it isn't raining and you need to fill their tank too? Still need dechlor.

Grab a few plants if you can, sometimes they have a good deal, or maybe check another pet shop nearby.
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:16 PM   #6
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Unhappy

More bad news. Yesterday a tetra died. It looked like its tail was damaged. This morning I noticed a couple of white spots on the second tetra. Exactly like the pictures of ick in the article on this site.

I took a water sample to PetSmart where they tested it with a strip. "PH, Ammonia were ok, Nitrates a bit raised but not dangerous". Not very scientific but according to the store clerk it was not my water killing the fish. I got some Jungle Ick Guard and Biozyme, and a couple more plants. Noticed white spots on the gourami too when I got back and quickly got the carbon out of my filter and administered the Ick Guard. It turned the whole tank blue/green but the fish don't seem to mind. I guess I will have to wait with the Biozyme untill the Ick Guard has done its job and is filtered out.

Based on what I have learned so far the guppy somehow got bitten or scraped, the frog had an injury which made him susspetable to a fungus and now the rest of the fish have ick, probably introduced with the tetras. Oh, and I probably killed my shrimp and Pleco with the Ick guard (not specifically mentioned on the label, but I just read that the meds are toxic to them in an on-line article, after I added it to the tank).
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:17 AM   #7
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Wow, that stinks. Sorry to hear that. If you can try to get the shrimp and pleco out, they may be okay. Even if you have to just put them in a bucket with an air hose or now. Better to try and help them is my opinion.
Good luck with everything.
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Old 09-20-2008, 01:26 PM   #8
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Update: my female guppy died two days after I started with the Ick Guard. The others made it through, even the pleco and shrimps. I added a heater to my tank and I am keeping it at about 89F (84 according to the setting on the heater, 88 according to one thermometer and 91 according to another one). I stopped the ick guard a couple of days after the spots disappeared, but will keep the temperature up for at least another week. I sprinkled some biozyme on the filter after I stopped wiht the ick guard.

Water test:
PH 8
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 1 (or maybe 5, colors are very close!)
Nitrates 7

This is the first time I am using the API fresh water master test kit, and I am not sure about the nitrites reading.

I did a PWC after the test and dropped a "correct PH" tablet in the water that I addded. Anything else I can/should do to improve the water?

Also, I now have lots of little green algae spots on my glass. It seems like it started when the temperature went up. I have a pleco and a mistery snail, but they prefer the ornaments in the tank, and are not keeping up witht the algae on the glass. Any tips?

Thanks for the help.
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Old 09-20-2008, 01:32 PM   #9
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For the glass- get a mag-float. Little magnetic scrubber guy that you pull along with a magnet on the outside of the tank- works great and isn't messy.

It's much more important that your pH is constant and not perfect...
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Old 09-22-2008, 05:48 PM   #10
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dwarf frogs get fungus easily you have to keep them seperated from other fish, species only, mainly. also when you see fuzz it's overwith, take them out do a huge water change and put the frog in some water till it dies, there really is no fix for the fungus but it is contagious. 15g is way to small for all of those fish & the filter change was good but you changed the bacteria causeing a cycle.
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:15 PM   #11
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Overstocked. Yeah, I can see that now. This really started with my daughters and me at PetCo picking out some fish that looked nice. Unfortunately the tank has "unstocked" itself. We will stay away from frogs for now. We are left with the gourami, molly, one little guppy, two danios and a pleco. And one shrimp and one snail as far as I can see. They are all rather small, with the exception of the molly, who is chubby, even after giving birth.

I am thinking of moving the guppy and molly to another tank, with the molly fry. I will replace them with one dwarf gourami. I think my gourami is female (rounded rear tip of the top fin). Should I add another female, or a male?

Thanks
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:42 AM   #12
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I think 2 gourami and a shrimp and snail are just fine for the 15g but no more! also what kind of snail did you get? most snails give out alot of waste and add to the ammonia like all your fish put together.
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1- 20g w/2 Panther Geckos
1- 55g w/1 common pleco,1 rubberlipped pleco,7 fancy guppies,20 MTS,1 dwarf crayfish, 1 bamboo shrimp, 2 ghost shrimp, 1 marble cray,10 snails
1-20h w/2 dwarf puffers, cherry shrimp, and some scared snails!
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