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Old 07-05-2011, 08:05 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by severum mama
You won't want to use Epsom salt IMO but Kosher salt works fine. It doesn't have to be "aquarium salt".

FWIW I have been dosing my tanks with Prime and adding the makeup water back in immediately for going on 8 years now. Tap water is not going to nuke a tank's bio filter on contact.
correct, but chloramine doesn't break down immediately on contact with conditioner either. Why take the chance, if it takes 30 minutes to neutralize, then thats 30 minutes its been killing your filters. if you have perfectly healthy strong fish, a little spike in ammonia and nitrite while the bacteria regrows won't hurt them, but he.doesn't have a perfectly healthy tank on his hands Just my opinion, guess everyone should do what works for them.

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Old 07-05-2011, 08:08 PM   #142
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correct, but chloramine doesn't break down immediately on contact with conditioner either. Why take the chance, if it takes 30 minutes to neutralize, then thats 30 minutes its been killing your filters. if you have perfectly healthy strong fish, a little spike in ammonia and nitrite while the bacteria regrows won't hurt them, but he.doesn't have a perfectly healthy tank on his hands Just my opinion, guess everyone should do what works for them.
It is really hard to have 20 gallons all siting around for 30 min (I only have one 5 gallon bucket)
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:14 PM   #143
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I change five gallons once a week. Mainly to just vacuum the waste out. my pal has his tank marked at ten gallons. When it evaporate out to the line he adds ten gallons. He vacuums like once every six months. Lol. and his fish are making tons of fry so he must be doing something right.

I'm guess the point in trying to make is that if you get it stable and leave it alone you don't have to do much.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:21 PM   #144
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correct, but chloramine doesn't break down immediately on contact with conditioner either. Why take the chance, if it takes 30 minutes to neutralize, then thats 30 minutes its been killing your filters. if you have perfectly healthy strong fish, a little spike in ammonia and nitrite while the bacteria regrows won't hurt them, but he.doesn't have a perfectly healthy tank on his hands Just my opinion, guess everyone should do what works for them.
No offense, but where is the evidence for this claim? It's my understanding that chloramine is neutralized immediately and I've never seen any evidence to the contrary.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:27 PM   #145
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I need help with some math. If every day I do a 50% pwc (2.5 gallons) then how much macaryn two do I need to add each day to make up for it? I don't know I you can make a math equation for that or not. I don't know if that makes cents. But the instructions do not factor pwc into the prosedur and the medication is designed to build up over the corse of the dosing period. If you think about it the first day you do a pwc you will take out less medication but the next day you will take out twice as much medication (the consitration will be higher) HAAA!! please help poor fishfanatic out
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:33 PM   #146
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No offense, but where is the evidence for this claim? It's my understanding that chloramine is neutralized immediately and I've never seen any evidence to the contrary.

i dont know of any evidence, supporting or dismissing it. but i can tell you that if i feed after a water change MY way, the ammonia is back down to normal in like 20 minutes after the spike. if i do it by just topping off with the garden hose then adding the neutralizer, it takes the better part of 2 hours for the ammonia to come down. That tells me there is less bacteria eating the ammonia. which means the cloramine and chlorine have enough time to start a kill off. not really scientific, just MY results. im sure neither way will hurt them, just the way i do it. that stuff is toxic to the bacteria AND the fish.. so i dont even chance it anymore. beleive me, i used to do it the other way, and i had one nasty looking fish as a result.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:37 PM   #147
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Why is there ammonia present at all? This suggests an uncycled tank to begin with rather than a sudden effect from chloramine present in the water.
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:04 PM   #148
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Why is there ammonia present at all? This suggests an uncycled tank to begin with rather than a sudden effect from chloramine present in the water.

i have a giant goldfish that eats and poops alot. lol. but like i said. it spikes, then goes right back down 20 minutes later. ive never seen my tank NOT spike after i feed them. maybe if i had a bigger tank, bigger filter.. etc.. etc.. ( next weeks pay check ) my tank is def cycled though. tripple 0 now across the board.
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:20 PM   #149
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i have a giant goldfish that eats and poops alot. lol. but like i said. it spikes, then goes right back down 20 minutes later. ive never seen my tank NOT spike after i feed them. maybe if i had a bigger tank, bigger filter.. etc.. etc.. ( next weeks pay check ) my tank is def cycled though. tripple 0 now across the board.
Honestly, even though this is off topic of the thread, but what you are sayin is inconceivable.. Food should not cause an ammonia spike nor should one fish's poop. You really should check your testing kit. You should not have detectable ammonia in your tank if it has been cycled, nor should you have zero nitrates unless you have some serious plants soaking up every single molecule.

I also disagree with the need for a 30 minute inactivation of chlorine and chloramines. The water conditioners are developed to inactivate chlorines instantaneously. There is no need to wait, you can add them before adding water without any worry of the chlorines or chloramines affecting your BB.
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:30 PM   #150
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Honestly, even though this is off topic of the thread, but what you are sayin is inconceivable.. Food should not cause an ammonia spike nor should one fish's poop. You really should check your testing kit. You should not have detectable ammonia in your tank if it has been cycled, nor should you have zero nitrates unless you have some serious plants soaking up every single molecule.

I also disagree with the need for a 30 minute inactivation of chlorine and chloramines. The water conditioners are developed to inactivate chlorines instantaneously. There is no need to wait, you can add them before adding water without any worry of the chlorines or chloramines affecting your BB.

soooo your saying that fish waste and excess food doesnt cause ammonia? cuz thats exactly the opposite of everything ive ever learned. there is a thread on this forum right here regarding this same matter. id have to search for it, but i read it a couple weeks ago. if you only check your ammonia ever 3 days, youll never see it. but i had a bad off fish and was checking hourly.
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:56 PM   #151
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soooo your saying that fish waste and excess food doesnt cause ammonia? cuz thats exactly the opposite of everything ive ever learned. there is a thread on this forum right here regarding this same matter. id have to search for it, but i read it a couple weeks ago. if you only check your ammonia ever 3 days, youll never see it. but i had a bad off fish and was checking hourly.
I won't comment beyond this point. But if you read what I wrote....a normal portion of food wont cause an immediate ammonia spike and poop from one fish wont either, unless you are testing water with poop in it maybe. One fish's single poop in several gallons of water isn't going to register.

The other points I mentioned are more pertinent to this thread, and out of respect to the poster, we should keep this thread on topic.

I merely made comment on your post to draw your attention to a potentially faulty or expired testing kit, or that your tank, as Severum mama also suggested might not be cycled if you are seeing so many ammonia spikes.

If you have other questions for me please feel free to shoot me an email or start a new thread. I would be happy to help you troubleshoot.
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:02 PM   #152
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I just wanted to chime in and say I agree this deserves a new thread. Kai and SM have some great points and it's worth looking into. I'll be happy to help out as well.

Sorry I don't have anything to offer on the original topic. :-(
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:28 PM   #153
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lol yeah sorry for thread jacking.. but i do have to say.. if i fed according to the label on my food i would be putting in 13 crisp 2 to 3 times a day. OR 4-6 LARGE pellets 2 times a day.. thats alot of food.. and poop. haha! (that just ONE fish btw) so im not concerned with a little ammonia spike that goes away in less than an hour. now if all i had was 1 tiny betta..well that would be different.

ok back on topic.. lol hows the angel?
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:31 PM   #154
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Please start a new thread if you wish to continue discussing this topic. This thread is about a sick angel and needs to stay that way. Discussions like this cause the thread to become long and irrelavent, which could mean less help for the OP in curing the fish.
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:35 PM   #155
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I need help with some math. If every day I do a 50% pwc (2.5 gallons) then how much macaryn two do I need to add each day to make up for it? I don't know I you can make a math equation for that or not. I don't know if that makes cents. But the instructions do not factor pwc into the prosedur and the medication is designed to build up over the corse of the dosing period. If you think about it the first day you do a pwc you will take out less medication but the next day you will take out twice as much medication (the consitration will be higher) HAAA!! please help poor fishfanatic out
^^ anyways... any answers
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:37 PM   #156
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^^ anyways... any answers
1.5 packs per day
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:42 PM   #157
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1.5 packs per day
That would be equivalent to dosing 15 gallons of water. Are you sure?
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:47 PM   #158
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hold on..let me read the label again.

are you doing this in the bucket or in the tank?
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:48 PM   #159
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hold on..let me read the label again.

are you doing this in the bucket or in the tank?
I will be doing it in a 5 gallon bucket
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:51 PM   #160
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ok. then you need to use 1/2 packet per day WITHOUT doing water changes. and since your changing half of that water, then add 1/4 of a pack. hard to get it that accurate though. so 3/4 of a pack daily. and then your gonna want to add 1 teaspoon of aquairum salt, 1ml of melafix, and your trace elelements if you want..

at least, thats how i do it, scaled down of course.
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