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Old 10-13-2014, 12:47 AM   #1
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rotate Artemiss and Herbtana for a general cure when I cant diagnose?

I have been using a bacterial treatment called Artemiss which is a natural remedy. I have also been using a parastic treatment called herbtana, made from the same company. It says on the box that you can and should rotate the two products when introducing new fish for two days... so I'm wondering since I can NOT apparently diagnose whether this is a bacterial or parasitic thing affecting these fish IF I can simply rotate the medication for 10 days without negative effects?

I figure I would get slammed for not providing details from the sticky and explaining a little bit of my situation HOWEVER my real question is simply IF these two products are fine to alternate dosing in a day (as the instructions say for new fish introduction), would it be ok to simply continue dosing for a longer period in hopes to clear up bacterial AND parasitic problems since I can't seem to properly diagnose whatever problem I have and a CURE ALL would be nice?

Now, if you can't answer that question without reading the backstory feel free to proceed

Below you will see my tanks parameters to add to my confusion. My large "showtank" the discus always seem stressed. It is a planted tank with injected CO2. Clamped fins on one of the three discus, popeye, seemingly abnormal fighting. Honestly I didnt pay too much mind to the "fighting" as this has been somewhat "normal" behavior for this tank for a loooooong time. What made my really think twice is I ordered a lot of new discus and set up a quarantine tank for the new ones. The quarantine tank is doing SO wonderful (for a month now) that I realized the severity of my "show" tank something is just wrong. What makes me even crazier is there is very little different between the two tanks except CO2 and a different substrate in the show tank. I will NOT be moving the discus from quarantine into the show tank as the show tank seems to be a weird mess for some reason and the quarantine is so functionally good I wouldn't move the new arrivals into that when they are doing so well in quarantine.

Three different things between the two tanks.
excel, injected CO2, substrate
tonight I decided to do a test and eliminate excel dosing and cut the CO2. Plants will have to grow slow for a while

In the quarantine tank there is no excel dosing, nor CO2 and the substrate is a regular crappy gravel from petco.

The "show tank" is high tech to some degree with a fancy "aquadurt" substrate and all the bells and whistles to make a "nice" tank however seems to be a fail on fish health when my low tech quarantine has discus jumping for food and singing songs around the campfire together

CONFUSED? Yes, I am.

1~What type of fish is afflicted? Discus (popeye, seemingly abnormal fighting)

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? ammonia= 0
nitrites= 10 ppm
nitrates= 0
temp=86
ph=6.0
3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up? 120 gallon, 2years
4~What type of filtration are you using?
Aqueon Proflex Acrylic Sump Model 3 - 110 Gallons containing:
2 200 micron socks containing:
purigen
sponge
nitrate and ammonia pads
Fluval Pre-Filter Media - 750 grams/26.45 ounces

5~How many fish are in the tank? 3 Discus. 8 inch. Been in there for over a year.

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel?Everyday, between 5 and 15 gallons daily.

7~How long have you had the fish? Over a year.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.? no

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?
Frozen Blood Worms
Frozen Beef Heart
Brine Shrimp
Flake mix
ALL mixed together, strained and made fresh daily

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Old 10-13-2014, 02:31 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBlasto View Post
I have been using a bacterial treatment called Artemiss which is a natural remedy. I have also been using a parastic treatment called herbtana, made from the same company. It says on the box that you can and should rotate the two products when introducing new fish for two days... so I'm wondering since I can NOT apparently diagnose whether this is a bacterial or parasitic thing affecting these fish IF I can simply rotate the medication for 10 days without negative effects?



I figure I would get slammed for not providing details from the sticky and explaining a little bit of my situation HOWEVER my real question is simply IF these two products are fine to alternate dosing in a day (as the instructions say for new fish introduction), would it be ok to simply continue dosing for a longer period in hopes to clear up bacterial AND parasitic problems since I can't seem to properly diagnose whatever problem I have and a CURE ALL would be nice?



Now, if you can't answer that question without reading the backstory feel free to proceed



Below you will see my tanks parameters to add to my confusion. My large "showtank" the discus always seem stressed. It is a planted tank with injected CO2. Clamped fins on one of the three discus, popeye, seemingly abnormal fighting. Honestly I didnt pay too much mind to the "fighting" as this has been somewhat "normal" behavior for this tank for a loooooong time. What made my really think twice is I ordered a lot of new discus and set up a quarantine tank for the new ones. The quarantine tank is doing SO wonderful (for a month now) that I realized the severity of my "show" tank something is just wrong. What makes me even crazier is there is very little different between the two tanks except CO2 and a different substrate in the show tank. I will NOT be moving the discus from quarantine into the show tank as the show tank seems to be a weird mess for some reason and the quarantine is so functionally good I wouldn't move the new arrivals into that when they are doing so well in quarantine.



Three different things between the two tanks.

excel, injected CO2, substrate

tonight I decided to do a test and eliminate excel dosing and cut the CO2. Plants will have to grow slow for a while



In the quarantine tank there is no excel dosing, nor CO2 and the substrate is a regular crappy gravel from petco.



The "show tank" is high tech to some degree with a fancy "aquadurt" substrate and all the bells and whistles to make a "nice" tank however seems to be a fail on fish health when my low tech quarantine has discus jumping for food and singing songs around the campfire together



CONFUSED? Yes, I am.



1~What type of fish is afflicted? Discus (popeye, seemingly abnormal fighting)



2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? ammonia= 0

nitrites= 10 ppm

nitrates= 0

temp=86

ph=6.0

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up? 120 gallon, 2years

4~What type of filtration are you using?

Aqueon Proflex Acrylic Sump Model 3 - 110 Gallons containing:

2 200 micron socks containing:

purigen

sponge

nitrate and ammonia pads

Fluval Pre-Filter Media - 750 grams/26.45 ounces



5~How many fish are in the tank? 3 Discus. 8 inch. Been in there for over a year.



6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel?Everyday, between 5 and 15 gallons daily.



7~How long have you had the fish? Over a year.



8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.? no



9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?

Frozen Blood Worms

Frozen Beef Heart

Brine Shrimp

Flake mix

ALL mixed together, strained and made fresh daily

1- Popeye is generally not curable in Discus. General cause is poor water conditions. Evidence ( your #6 of 5-15g WC's) on a 120g tank. Way too small WC amount.

2- are you sure it's nitrItes and not nitrAtes @ 10 ????? Did you mix those up ? (It happens) if not, seems you have a mini cycle happening.

Popeye IS an internal bacterial issue. You would have to look for factors prior to the onset to help determine the cause. Bad food, foul water conditions.

Treatment I would go with.
1- 75% (min) WC with gravel vac
2-Lower temp to 80-82į
3-antibiotics w/ internal effect (Kanacyn) treat as stated. If improvement is seen, continue 2nd round.
4- WC on 5th day and then 3rd of treatment.

I would also use a much smaller tank as it's easier to treat and less expensive.

Excessive fighting may indicate the fish is beyond help and the strongest will survive type issue.

Where did the new discus come from ?



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Old 10-13-2014, 11:44 AM   #3
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Yes, you are correct, I wrote the nitrite where nitrate should be. Nitrite is at 0 and nitrate is at 10 ppm.

The new healthy discus came from discusmadness which is online. Healthy and lively. Pretty happy with the quarantine tank. Now, I need to make the show tank as pretty as the quarantine ugh
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